[merrick4]

Originally Posted by rank

Merrick,

Unless you do a regular run with a given broker with which you have established a rate, you have no need for the fuel surcharge. The FSC adjusts the rate up and down based on the current price of fuel. Since you are only doing one run on that day, the FSC does't exist for you.

Let's say lansdstar needs your truck this one time to show up at a shipper. there might be 5 LS trucks there and you. The LS guys that do this run all the time might be getting 1.35 + .20 FSC. You might get $1.55 + 0 FSC.

I think that's what the broker was telling me. But I swear the rates that I was getting with this guy I was with was not what he was getting. I think he was getting what I was getting (from CH) PLUS the fsc. He pays his drivers I think 28% and there was no way he was going to be making what he claims to be making (supposedly the same as me) and paying drivers.

[no_worries]

For you, FSC is meaningless. You're quoting a flat rate for a load and the broker is doing the same back. The broker isn't getting $1.10+$.40 and offering you just the linehaul. He's getting $1.50 and offering you $1.10. When you're working on the spot market you don't need to worry about FSC. Diesel utilizes a surcharge because he's hauling multiple loads for one customer over a period of time. Therefore, if there wasn't a mechanism to account for fuel spikes (like the NW is seeing right now), he could take it in the shorts. But when you're working on an irregular basis it's not something to concern yourself with.

Hopefully you can find something out of the NW, it hasn't been pretty up there lately and last I checked fuel was $3.50+. CA is slow too. If I were in your shoes, I would stay East and try to develop lanes between the SE and the MW. Fuel will be more manageable and the seasons will work in your favor. Xmas trees will be starting out of MI and NC before long. Like Diesel said, they usually pay pretty well even though they can be a PITA.

Remember, with reefer freight, the rules about freight lanes are subject to seasonality. In my experience, West to East usually pays better. However, right now the West is pretty dead. When apples are in season rates usually jump in the NW. This year the rails moved in big time and, combined with too many trucks, rates were pathetic.

With a nice second income in the family you can afford to be picky. You're trying to establish that reputation as someone who delivers quality service and is worth the extra $. That's great. Just make sure your actions reflect that. When you tell a broker you won't haul for cheap and then take a reefer load for $1.30...let's just say those are who the brokers like to deal with. Take advantage of the fact that you don't have to turn the wheels at all costs. You'll learn a lot sitting back and observing freight movements. Besides, holding out for a good rate gives you lots of opportunity to hone those negotiating skills.

And one last note, refrigerated is refrigerated. The fact that you can run it on cycle shouldn't matter when it comes to quoting your rate. They need temp controlled equipment you should charge one temp controlled rate. If it turns out that it doesn't cost quite as much as you quoted...you can always offer a rebate :lol:


Good luck. Make it through the next 6 months and the rest will seem like a cakewalk.

[merrick4]

Hey no_worries thanks! I thought you were on vacation or something .
You see I don't know anything. I didn't know the West was dead. I just put in my destination (before I called) Kent, WA and saw lots of loads.

What do you think of that rate to go out west for a dry load that I got? $3100 for 2200 miles? I tell you going with this guy really screwed me up. You know I knew this guy to run a tight operation then all of a sudden he is telling me $1.30 is good right now. Those bastards brought me into Florida for $1.48 from NC. I wanted to tell the broker (at CH) who is in charge of SE Produce to take a flying *** but I kept quiet as this was this guy's contact and once I get going it can get ugly. So I just kept quiet.

But enough was enough and I left a load of citrus which was supposedly a new customer for them sitting right where it, well I never even went to get it, I told them I wouldn't haul it and that was the end of that broker and deadheaded out of Florida.

So now here I am with a truck and a trailer trying to figure all of this out. I have picked up bad habits from this guy, that is to just keep the truck moving. As you noted I can sit and wait, but for some reason the thought of it makes me nervous.

Yes you are right, saying no enough times will definitely hone the negotiating skills.

I'm not sure that the broker isn't not getting the FSC. I picked up a load for TQL and for some reason I got the paperwork of the rate between them and the shipper and it had it broke down to FSC plus the linehaul. I squeezed him good and he said the customer wouldn't pay more (it was about $1.70 a mile and sure enough what he quoted me was what was on the paper; but there was a seperate line for the FSC).

Anyway thanks for your help no_worries. Aren't you running still by the way?

[person]

Please be encouraged by what N_W is saying here. It may not happen over night now that you're truly on your own, but it will happen b/c you are asking questions and working at this thing. You have a brand new reefer to pay for, but you have double the freight available than if you had gotten a van.

There are thousands of ordinary guys out there making it and there is no reason that you will not become one of them. Keep doing your best and ride out this learning curve.

[merrick4]

Thanks a lot Person. Yes I do plenty of asking questions. Every where I go I'm usually fascinated and asking something. Last weekend it was the bulk mail proecessing centers. Then the other day, I had to pick up in Lenexa, Ks. The lady was telling me something about going into the cave when she was giving me directions. I figure it was some nickname or something for the place.

Man the WHOLE place was underground and one big giant cave. I couldn't believe it. There were multiple companies and the docks for these big 53' trucks were set in the walls of these caves with multiple turns and bends. I was so fascinated and usually these people who are loading trucks and have thankless jobs are usually pretty happy to be have someone pay attention to them and they start explaining stuff.

Has anyone been in one of these caves? The guy was telling me it was an old quarry and that there are even bigger ones.

But I digress. Thanks again Person. You are right, there are many people making this work so I don't see why I can't. Hell I was in S.C. at a shop talking with the mechanic who was telling me that he did OTR for 6 years but could never get a truck and I was able to do it after just 6 months and I don't mean that as a boastful statement at all but sometimes at moments like that I just start "man I got this far this fast, I can keep pushing."

Thanks again for your comments.

[no_worries]

I'm not going to badmouth your load out to WA. If you're happy you're happy. Normally, it's not a bad rate, a little lower than I would take if things were hopping in WA but not too much. However, things aren't hopping and fuel is brutal on that run. This time of year wind can kill your mileage in a hurry on that lane too. But these are all things you learn best by experiencing, so it's all good. I would think you can expect to get a load out of WA for right around that same rate without too much trouble. I see there's even a load to MA right now for $5500. I haven't seen a load for that rate in weeks up there posted on the boards. Make sure you're checking fuel prices on your route daily as you head up there, they've been changing fast along 90. If you get unloaded by mid-afternoon haul ass to the Flying J in Tacoma. The only parking for 30 miles and the cheapest TS fuel in WA usually. Remember, chains are required in WA now.

Haven't been on vacation, actually working again :lol: We haven't worked much this year, time to put a few miles on :shock:

My point about the FSC is that it doesn't matter whether the broker is getting that as part of the rate or not. When it comes right down to it, the broker gets $X to move a load and pays you $Y. What makes up X and Y is irrelevant. Could be FSC, drops, temp control premium, expedite, nice day premium...whatever. The bottom line is all that matters. When you ask for fuel as you did, you expose your inexperience to the broker, since your quoted rate should be enough to cover your fuel costs. Of course, it's ok to ask about a FSC in order to make a point about a low rate 8)

[no_worries]

Actually, after looking a little closer, rates look like they've come up a bit in WA. I've been up there 3 times in the last couple of weeks and they're better than I've seen. Make sure you take a look at the boards each day during business hours. You might be able to book something ahead of time. The good brokers don't wait until the last minute trying to squeeze every dime out of a load. Good luck.

[BigDiesel]

Originally Posted by merrick4

Hey no_worries thanks! I thought you were on vacation or something .
You see I don't know anything. I didn't know the West was dead. I just put in my destination (before I called) Kent, WA and saw lots of loads.

What do you think of that rate to go out west for a dry load that I got? $3100 for 2200 miles? I tell you going with this guy really screwed me up. You know I knew this guy to run a tight operation then all of a sudden he is telling me $1.30 is good right now. Those bastards brought me into Florida for $1.48 from NC. I wanted to tell the broker (at CH) who is in charge of SE Produce to take a flying *** but I kept quiet as this was this guy's contact and once I get going it can get ugly. So I just kept quiet.

But enough was enough and I left a load of citrus which was supposedly a new customer for them sitting right where it, well I never even went to get it, I told them I wouldn't haul it and that was the end of that broker and deadheaded out of Florida.

So now here I am with a truck and a trailer trying to figure all of this out. I have picked up bad habits from this guy, that is to just keep the truck moving. As you noted I can sit and wait, but for some reason the thought of it makes me nervous.

Yes you are right, saying no enough times will definitely hone the negotiating skills.

I'm not sure that the broker isn't not getting the FSC. I picked up a load for TQL and for some reason I got the paperwork of the rate between them and the shipper and it had it broke down to FSC plus the linehaul. I squeezed him good and he said the customer wouldn't pay more (it was about $1.70 a mile and sure enough what he quoted me was what was on the paper; but there was a seperate line for the FSC).Anyway thanks for your help no_worries. Aren't you running still by the way?

Not too bad on the rate... a good learning experience. When booking loads or negotiating rates w/ a broker remember that you can always come down on your price, but you can never go back up. Also remember you have got nothing to lose when negotiating the load, there are always others out there. Try not to buy any fuel in WA if possible.

[merrick4]

You're right about why I asked about the fuel. These rates are so low one would think it's not including fuel surcharge. But I did want to point out to them the price of fuel. I think it's just a number to these people sitting around at a desk but as we all know this is a real number and I feel they need to be reminded of that all the time. There is now way with fuel the way it is now to be hauling a reefer load for $1.19 to California.

You're also right about the relevance of the FSC. Actually I don't care what they make. On that particular load I was happy with the rate I got so that truly is the key. And you are right that you don't have to haul cheap and service counts because that was the highest paying load I got yet and when it was over they told me it was an absolute pleasure working with me and if I'm in that area again to call. (They love these check calls.)

Actually what I liked about this load was when I put in the destination (kent) I saw multiple loads going to Miami and as most don't want to go to Miami I'm hoping to get one right to there. Of course I won't ask for it and I'll give the whole speach on how I can't get out of there etc.

I have to go buy chains? What is it from October or so on? I don't even have a hat with me. Man I hate the cold.

I don't know how you do teams, I couldn't handle that, that's for sure. Speaking of teams, what do you think about flowers? The guy I was with said they pay too cheap but he proved to be a fabricator. I would like to find a steady stream of a product in Florida. My wife is actually Ecuadorian and I keep nagging her to get on the phone and find something out down there. When I was with the company, a girl came to my house as a guest and it turned out she worked for a logistics company down there and was here on business. I started with the questions but I didn't want to be rude. I am trying to get back in touch with her now.

I know LCT (the company I was with) did flowers but it was mostly the team trucks. Any thoughts on that?

[BigDiesel]

Chains required on truck for WA Nov 1st. ( they will check )