No Bingo, that's not how markets work. Labor markets are a kind of market. But, I don't want to be the contrary one and there are enough people around here who understand this so I'll let someone else explain it.

 

Let me just do this.

Companies can't just make up a comparison of what their O/Os and company drivers make out of thin air. The O/O pay has to be competitive with what other outfits pay their O/Os in a similar system. By similar system I mean similar freight, cpm v. percentage, megacompany v. smaller ones... If Schneider just pulls numbers out of thin air then all the Dart guys are going to go to Schneider or all the Schneider guys are going to go to Dart, depending on what those numbers are.

Same with company drivers. The pay isn't set competitive with their O/Os, it's set competitive with other company jobs.

 

It is still up to the O/O to figure out the numbers and see if it is worth the time to lease on a certain carrier. The problem with most cpm carriers is that they control how many miles you get. Sure,they advertise no forced dispatch,but they can always lie and say there is no other load available and if you refuse it in some cases you will end up paying the deadhead. THEY are in control of YOUR business. Looks like some of you misinterpreted what I was saying. There is a chance at succeeding with these companies,but the chances of doing it are not very high and in the long run it will not pay off. A few major breakdowns in a short time and it could easily start putting the O/O toward the red. It happens with a lot of used trucks. There simply is not enough revenue to budget for these circumstances at 1.17cpm.If you look at the numbers I posted you will see what I mean. Im not saying it happens with every truck,but the risks are there,which is one reason why many fail.

 

I don't want to get too into anybodys "how to make money, or anything like that", but I will say... trucking is a hard job any way you look at it, be it company driver, lease operator, or O/O. You new guys don't think you know it all after a few months doing it. Listen to what the old guys say. Experince is a education through living it. I have been a O/O since 91, not a lease operator. I haul what alot on here don't ... livestock. Often I make big money (my average weekly gross is $8,487.00), sometimes I scratch my head thinking why the H am I doing this. Why do I? Because I love my job, and being in my truck... it is not for the money, the money only keeps me doing it. I do have a better than average retirement, I am setting better than alot of guys doing this, there are I am sure many that are sitting better than I. But my whole point here is guys, listen, don't take things personal, and I can see why on the radio so many of you guys can't get along... just food for thought.

 

Cam, I don't take anything personally :lol: I just have issues with people who don't respond logically to arguments. Oh, I tend to address a lot of posts when I post, if it doesn't seem like it's directed at you, it probably isn't. I try and make it clear if I'm addressing someone in particular. (I wasn't calling you illogical) 8)

GMAN, I would agree that your second and third examples or acceptable methods. I don't believe the first is, unless I'm misinterpreting something. Someone that just looks at what's left after fuel and is happy he's got $.60/mile instead of the $.30 he'd have as a company driver, hardly has a grasp of what his business is doing and therefore no concept of his profit. But maybe I misunderstood you. It's been a long day :?

I think the big companies pay their drivers based on what they've budgeted into their business plan. They have expectations as far as revenue and what they want as profit. Everything else fits into place, including driver pay. Now O/O's are a different story. Here I think they pay the minimum amount they can and still attract operators. It's well known that companies make more off their owner-ops than they do off company drivers, so they could pay more. I think the rates of pay for the two are mutually exclusive.

 

You are correct, no_worries. The first example is not acceptable, but there are more in that group than you might think. The individual in this first group has no grasp on how to profitably run a business. I was merely attempting to show various types of owner operators who are in this business. The people who work on percentage and manage their business should do better than the others.

 

Guys, I think for me this thread has run it's course. I saw this:

I have no idea what happened in some other thread. My thing, I just don't want to see a new guy being told he can't make it in a cents per mile O/O system when there have been guys doing it for years. 'New guys', we're talking guys getting their feet wet who benefit from drawing on all the support you get from a system like that. I'm not saying these systems shouldn't be criticized. I'm not saying there aren't better ways to make money in trucking. For a lot of first timers these megacarrier systems are the only accessible opportunity. If you know of someone who has a better lease to offer him, do tell. If not, just try to help him do it right and get himself established and help him to position himself for whatever greener pastures that may be out there.

Obviously, you can do and say anything you like. But, I'm going to look for the side of the underdog, lots of people are that way so I don't think I have to explain that. Maybe Prodigy will continue to post here and we can have peace and love and we can chew his azz if he's spending too much time at the house :wink: and we can all crack a cold one when he tells us the baby has diapers and he's doing great and the truck is paid off and now he's going to the half price prime rib and cheesecake buffet at the Rainbow in Wendover to celebrate! arty:

 

Yeah Big probably isnt too far off; when you consider the market forces and all.....but what really gets me is so much here is just analysis and numbers....true thats what is easiest to discuss, and no one can arquee with accurate fiqures....hmmm but bear with me why I try to look at the untangibles, that add up to so much missed $ and opportunities that its impossibe to put a # on it....(I know I will miss something here so feel free to correct me)
What will and can go wrong:

1.O/OP with authority:
a. Long D/h eating into profits
b. Low freight rate brokers not carring or understanding I cant haul maxed out weights for 1.00-1.10 a mile (man can you guys help me with some smart-a$$ response)...like excuse me....did I just call the laugh factory by accident? ..or hmmm is this jokes are us, right?.....that is who I am calling right?
c. Deadbeat brokers not willing to pay

2. O/op company lease drivers:
a. A dispatcher who really doesnt give a shit about you and a mega-company that really doesnt care either....just looking for suckers to bleed.
Yeah I can refuse a load, but lets get reall folkes (as DD60 pointed out before) You might as well shoot yourself in the head if you start refusing loads and really think you can pick and choose where you go?
Company politics are rough, your dispatcher (knows this way better then you ever will) and is either a person who a-is a collegee kid just working this to get by till they finish there courses (and do their real carrer...TG its Fri...n screw truck 666) or b- Is a carrer company person who will cut anyones throat who gets in their way, espicially YOU ( they dont intend to dispatch long...they have an eye on a mgmt. position)
God help you if he is in a war with other dispatchers cutting and stealing each others loads. Only way I would consider this is I had a pal working for mega company and he assured me he would be concerned.
b. Wont even consider the small guy myself....in LA a mega city like I coul really know Joe-blow personally and what he is really hiding under his rugs? Yeah suppose this could n does work for lots, just be sure to know all you can really about Joe-Blow Trucking and what dirt is really swept under his rug.

3. Co driver:- Hmm I could write a damn book about how much happier I am as a O/0p w/authority over this.....yes I know its not always green here either, but God Lord I was a company peon and worthless slave to them.
a. Yeah I made about a little over 30k a year, but I put in about 95 hours a week NOT 70! I did SO much unlogged work for them. Your forced dispatch! They have ways and are professional at using their system to get you to work for FREE! Promising hourly, paying you by the mile you will do so many local del, local p/u's and oooooh please just move this trailer one time for us? ....and go over and see whats wrong with truck 55566? (go your dam self!) ....n you wont hmmmm you need a drug test(more time you give for free) like maybe 5 more drug tests in the next 5 months, yeah I git use to my monthly random drug test sometimes for acting up!
b. Which brings me to the next....try and complain about all the screwed up free work they expect you to do......you are a complainer! That needs to be squashed like the insignificant bug you are.
C will you ever go home?........hmmmmmm glad I was single! I was routinly asked are you a family man? Are you fricking kidding? THe kids wouldnt know me when I got home, the dog would bite me....n the wife would have her divorcee pappers in hand claiming neglection.

My point is I will take the problems with door 1 if I get a choice...I respect lot of peps take door 2 or three......Of course I didnt even deal with the maitence problems assumed with 1 and 2.......thats too much a given, and we would turn this into the infinite post if we went their.

 

Sorry, to interrupt such conversation, :P but one more thing, i want to say about O/O "freedom"!
You only have "freedom", if you are making money, profit.
Otherwise, you have to run! You'll be probably have even less "freedom", than company driver! :wink:

 

Hmmm have to respectfully disagree about less freedom, maybe it was just my bad luck with companies, maybe I should have quit n found a better 1?
Still dont think the better 1 dream exists...all equally bad! When I was delivering Swifty asked if USX was any better....shit all equally bad IMO!
They said, 'quit' and quit whining if you dont like it.....finally I did...no I dont miss getting hung out months at a time by USX, spending weekends laid over in nowhere places, routinly forced dispatch into places I knew I would never get freight out of (like I could refuse...cant forced dispatch)
woo-woo 1 day off work for each week out....and they were saying I could only accumulate up to 5 days off....stayed out 7-9 weeks cuz you SOB's hung me out again!
You know its funny ...I didnt really care tho....had no wife n kids at home, just felt like the devil (incarnate) when I trained these young innocent and naive kids with families (who actually missed them and carred where they were) to support that had no clue what the company gig was REALLY about, and looked up at me with their dreams and trusting looks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: didnt care, had adopted the company motto,'more $ for me even if it screws you!' May God forgive me for my sins (doubt it, probably was the sin of unforgivnes...Co trainer)

Now,for the first time I feel like I am captain of my destiny, and yes, my ship could flounder n sink.......point is they were MY decisions(I have the helm wheel) God willing!....not some Hitler complexed punk kid dispatcher sticking his boot up my a$$