[Butcher]

It was the goverment that passed laws and told the banking industry that they had to lower their standard on loans so everyone could own a piece if America. Even the ones that could not afford it before now could own a house. So again it was goverment that caused this crises. Every time goverment gets involved we get the opposite effect that what they tell us. If goverment would lower the coporate tax (since we have the second highest coporate tax in the world) coporation would not take their jobs overseas.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Butcher

It was the goverment that passed laws and told the banking industry that they had to lower their standard on loans so everyone could own a piece if America. Even the ones that could not afford it before now could own a house. So again it was goverment that caused this crises. Every time goverment gets involved we get the opposite effect that what they tell us. If goverment would lower the coporate tax (since we have the second highest coporate tax in the world) coporation would not take their jobs overseas.

I see you don't have any better handle on it than the "ex-spurts". You're blaming bad loans. But, not all the loans were bad. They were made bad by the economy. American Business has slit their own throats by not giving a decent raise to labor. Back in 1978, I started working for a company in Wausau, WI for $7.00/hr. Today, their starting wage is $7.50/hr. $0.50/hr increase over a 31 year period? And, that's not the only company doing that. Want to know where the economy went? Too many people still making less than $10.00/hr. Fifty cents an hour over a thirty-one year period is like being on a fixed income. While all expenses have been going up. 31 years ago, I was paying $54.00 for car insurance, every 6 months. Want to know what I'm paying now? Know what the economy would be doing if wages had kept up with that? Take your head out of the sand and look around you. Not bad loans, but bad management. And, for that, their salaries are growing, they're getting bonusses and golden parachutes that get bigger every year.

And, the solution to the economy is not going to come from bailing out the corporations. And, the laws the government is passing reflect the concept of "I COME BEFORE YOU, TO STAND BEHIND YOU, TO TELL YOU SOMETHING I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT".

When everything has been said, and absolutely nothing done...
You've just been in a meeting with management.

Ever see the little cartoon? The guy with a suit and tie, pulling his hair out...
"OH, CRAP... YOU DID IT... JUST EXACTLY LIKE I TOLD YOU TO DO IT..."

[Windwalker]

ohiomohawk, I gotta know... I just gotta....
those things on your chest...
With all that walking...

Don't they get that... "repetitive-motion injury"?????

[wsyrob]

Truck companies are next in line with their hands out. I heard on the radio today YRC is seeking 1 billion from the government to bail them out. Main reason they are in trouble is their pension plan. Sucks for OO's who may now have to compete with government subsidized trucking companies.

[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by geomon

Playing the devil's advocate here...look where lack of govt restrictions got us regarding the financial mess we're in and the lack of oversight with all the mortgage backed securities. Too much of either side is bad.

We are in this mess because of the government, forcing these banks to loan to people who are not worthy of credit.
Government idiots like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who would stop you from doing business if you didn't do as they wanted.

[heavyhaulerss]

Originally Posted by Mackman

Not true one bit GMAN. On the news they said that only 10% of a cars price is going to pay labor. They also said that even if the workers were going to work for FREE GM would still had to go into bankruptcy. UAW had only a very little bit in making GM go Bankrupted. I do agree they may be over paid alittle.
a little is an understatement.
I love it when people blame everything on the unions when union company's cant stay afloat. I know alot of UNION company's that make a killing and get bigger every year it seems like.


Gman it seems anyone who makes a good living to you is a fool or something. You think everyone should get paid 10/hr.

this is the effect of unions getting over paid for decades. not just recently. the over priced ceo's are to blame for their over paid salaries too.

[heavyhaulerss]

the most I disliked about the shipp/rec that had union workers were most were arrogant & you had to kiss their ass to get loaded or unloaded. such as u.s. steel in fairfield AL. while most non union shops were just more people friendly. I come from a long line of union workers, so I do know the good side too. having a brother who is a top guy at the teamsters. I know a lot of inside info that most non union americans dont know. union workers have been spoiled way too much at some shops. some stupid sh$t like I cannot pick up that piece of garbage & throw in trash, cause it's not in my job description. or if I pick up the trash & it is not my job , then the janitor who's job it is can file a grievance .

[matcat]

Originally Posted by heavyhaulerss

I cannot pick up that piece of garbage & throw in trash, cause it's not in my job description. or if I pick up the trash & it is not my job , then the janitor who's job it is can file a grievance .

If I where a janitor and someone picked up some trash, I would be happy I didn't have to do it

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Blacksheep

We are in this mess because of the government, forcing these banks to loan to people who are not worthy of credit.
Government idiots like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who would stop you from doing business if you didn't do as they wanted.

Like so many other people, you're simply pulling at the leaves. Nowhere near the root of the problem.

Think about he guy that made $47,000 fifteen years ago. Look at the effects of inflation over the past fifteen years. Compare that to the way utility costs have gone up in the last fifteen years. Look at your car insurance over the last fifteen years. Now, look at the income for that same guy last year... Less than $30,000. Doing the same job for the same pay, but not getting as many hours, and no overtime. Fifteen years ago, that was not a bad loan. But, with the house half paid off, he lost it. If his income had kept up with the car insurance premiums, over the years, how much would he be making this year, and how much financial trouble would he be in now? If his income had kept up with "MY" car insurance premiums, over the years, today, he'd be making $741,000 a year. I don't think he would have lost his house last year.

Or, compare that income with what your own health insurance premiums have done over the past fifteen years. What do you come up with on that? I'd suggest you broaden your horizons, and widen out that tunnel vision of yours.

[cdswans]

For the record, I rarely agree with WW about anything. Today, I couldn't have said it better.

Originally Posted by Windwalker

. . American Business has slit their own throats by not giving a decent raise to labor. Back in 1978, I started working for a company in Wausau, WI for $7.00/hr. Today, their starting wage is $7.50/hr. $0.50/hr increase over a 31 year period? And, that's not the only company doing that. Want to know where the economy went? Too many people still making less than $10.00/hr. Fifty cents an hour over a thirty-one year period is like being on a fixed income. While all expenses have been going up . .

I was driving through Colorado springs one glorious afternoon, fairly early in our economic freefall, and heard an economist expain it thusly . .

American productivity (labor) has gone through the roof since the Reagan administration. No country, not even China was anywhere close. Unfortunately, wages NEVER kept pace with productivity. All the money went to shareholders, management and . . you guessed it . . government. It got to the point where Americans were producing goods they themselves could not afford to buy. In collusion, shareholders, management and . . you guessed it . . government, decided the solution was to send all the jobs overseas where the goods could be produced cheaply and then American Labor could afford to buy again!

The modern American business model has "antilabor" in it's DNA. We can afford to pay more when fuel goes up. We can afford to pay more when insurance goes up. But, somehow, we can't afford to pay more when we are ALL made more prosperous and wages go up.

Did the UAW go too far? Yes they did. Did the Teamsters go to far and destroy the reputation of unions? Yes they did. Are unions inherently bad? No, they are not. American Labor needs to reorganize and take this stinkin' country back.