Originally Posted by GMAN

I can always tell when I am in a union shop before anyone says a thing. You see a lot of people sitting or standing around doing nothing. And when they see you they just continue sitting or standing around doing nothing until the mood strikes them.

Sounds like the typical NON-UNION grocery whorehouse, meat-packing plant, produce house, DC, etc. Only difference is that you can understand what the union guys are saying because they speak English.

The real problem here isn't so much union vs. non-union, it's that the people in the warehouse, steel plant, DC, etc are paid by the HOUR. They're not on piece-rate pay, so they can care less if you're sitting there for free.

My cousin works at a place called Majestic Steel in Bedord Heights, Ohio...a NON-UNION steel company that Snowman is probably familiar with. With the dollar down and exports up, this place is having a record year cranking out steel. Drive by sometime and you will see OTR flatbed trucks lined up round the block waiting to get loaded/unloaded. Guess how much these guys are making for their time? Peanuts.

Your typical warehouse is staffed based on cost. They know they will have X amount of loads and have to hire Y amount of trucks. If you guys went on the clock the moment you checked-in to the guardshack or bumped the dock, they would have to hire more people, forklifts, etc to get you in-and-out quicker.

My dad ran his own business, and if one his employees arrived on the job and the customer didn't have his shit together, dad was still charging the customer 40 bucks an hour for his tech to sit there tying up the company van. Only in OTR do people sit around for free/peanuts and then blame everyone else that they're not making money. :roll:

[Kranky]

GMan said:

I can always tell when I am in a union shop before anyone says a thing. You see a lot of people sitting or standing around doing nothing. And when they see you they just continue sitting or standing around doing nothing until the mood strikes them.

If you showed up at my union shop you wouldn't see anyone sitting or standing around doing nothing, because the boss wouldn't tolerate that sh*t.

But you wouldn't show up at my union shop because we're an excavating/dump trucking co., so therefore you'll never be able to see for yourself.

You know what? I don't mind busting my ass for the company because the pay & benefits far exceed any of the non union excavating/dump trucking cos. in this area, and the boss treats us all like human beings.

A fair days pay for a fair days work.

It doesn't get much more decent than that.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by LeBron James

The real problem here isn't so much union vs. non-union, it's that the people in the warehouse, steel plant, DC, etc are paid by the HOUR. They're not on piece-rate pay, so they can care less if you're sitting there for free.

This is exactly my point about otr drivers being paid by the hour. There is no incentive for them to produce. I am glad that you finally agree with me.

Originally Posted by GMAN

This is exactly my point about otr drivers being paid by the hour. There is no incentive for them to produce. I am glad that you finally agree with me.

I have never said that OTR truckers should be paid strictly by the hour. What I have stated is that hourly pay should kick-in when a driver is delayed beyond his control.

When I occasionaly fill-in for linehaul, I'm paid by the mile. But if I get stuck in weather, traffic, breakdown, etc (all beyond my control), I go on the clock at my full hourly rate. I just note the delay in my logs, go to line 4, and I'm paid accordingly on my next check. And none of that AFTER 2 hours, AFTER 4 hours BS either.

Like I said, if you hit the dock and the shipper was paying you for your time, you would hardly wait around anywhere. And if you did, who cares? You're getting paid to sit. Afterall it's your time and time=$$$$, right?. If the shipper/receiver is holding you up, then it's on them. Tough. Tough fucking titty. Next time they'll have their ducks in a row and won't go into the penalty box at $22.00/hr. That'll learn em'!

But OTR guys play the logbook games by burying all the delays, waiting, and other assorted BS in lines 1 & 2 which gives the shipper/reciever a free pass to jerk them around. Why? So they can run more miles.

You guys are your own worst enemies. And if there's one sure bet on any game of chance, it's that the log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50 loose-leaf racket will never ever change in that biz. Which is why I ain't in it no more! :wink:

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by LeBron James

Like I said, if you hit the dock and the shipper was paying you for your time, you would hardly wait around anywhere. And if you did, who cares? You're getting paid to sit. Afterall it's your time and time=$$$$, right?. If the shipper/receiver is holding you up, then it's on them.

Actually, I agree with you about a shipper paying a truck for sitting at their docks. Most delays on either the receiving or shipping end are the result of poor work habits of the employees at the shipper or receiver. There should be some accountability. When I am held up at the shipper or receiver it is amazing how quickly I will get unloaded when I inform them that they will either need to unload me or pay me to sit. The funny part is that the worst to waste my time are the union workers. :roll:

[ironeagle_2006]

To all you UNION Supporters then explain my father. He was a Teamster because he had to in the 70's earned his PENSION from them yet they are DENYING his for the fact he chose to cross during the nationwide strike in the 70's he finally found out why Mr James R Hoffa himself put a note in files of all those who crossed and there were ALOT OF THEM just so they could FEED THEIR FAMILES yet Hoof the prick put in each of their files they will never get their pension from the Teamsters as far as I am concered UNIONS CAN KISS MY WHITE BUTT. If you look where the Big three are losing it comes down to what the UNIONS DEMANDED IN THEIR CONTRACTS. When the only person allowed to change a lightbulb is someone that gets more on their morning coffee break than my wife gets in a day there is SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

Sorry but I do not want to see the Employee Free Choice act passed for the reason we would see a RETURN OF WHAT THE UNIONS USED TO DO . Basically strong arm you to signing a card by saying either sign our we will break your legs. We as a nation do not need to see that again.

[GMAN]

That is a shame about your father, ironeagle. The Teamsters used to use a lot of strong arm tactics in years past. It seems to me that if you need to cooerce or threaten someone to get them to join, that there is something wrong. I remember a number of stories from people that I have known during the time you mentioned. That probably had more to do with my negative view of a union than anything else. If your Dad put in his money then he should be able to get his retirement. If I were him I would get a good lawyer to go after them. If there were several people who were denied their benefits they could probably get class action status. In fact, the government might be able to get involved.

You are right about the pay of the union worker. More pay, less work. They have basically fallen on their own sword with their greed. It is amusing that they are always talking about the company making so much money and taking advantage of the workers. It seems to me that the unions are the ones taking advantage of not only the companies but the workers they are supposed to represent.

Originally Posted by GMAN

When I am held up at the shipper or receiver it is amazing how quickly I will get unloaded when I inform them that they will either need to unload me or pay me to sit.

Yeah, but that's after you've been sitting there for 2 hours.

The funny part is that the worst to waste my time are the union workers. :roll:

Pull a reefer around for awhile and you'll quickly change your tune.

[GMAN]

I don't wait 2 hours to talk to the shipper or receiver. If I see that I may be unnecessarily delayed then I go and talk to them. And a lot of those grocery warehouses are union. I have delivered to some of those when I pulled a van around. They really know how to waste your time. :twisted:

[Mackman]

Originally Posted by ironeagle_2006

To all you UNION Supporters then explain my father. He was a Teamster because he had to in the 70's earned his PENSION from them yet they are DENYING his for the fact he chose to cross during the nationwide strike in the 70's he finally found out why Mr James R Hoffa himself put a note in files of all those who crossed and there were ALOT OF THEM just so they could FEED THEIR FAMILES yet Hoof the prick put in each of their files they will never get their pension from the Teamsters as far as I am concered UNIONS CAN KISS MY WHITE BUTT. If you look where the Big three are losing it comes down to what the UNIONS DEMANDED IN THEIR CONTRACTS. When the only person allowed to change a lightbulb is someone that gets more on their morning coffee break than my wife gets in a day there is SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

Sorry but I do not want to see the Employee Free Choice act passed for the reason we would see a RETURN OF WHAT THE UNIONS USED TO DO . Basically strong arm you to signing a card by saying either sign our we will break your legs. We as a nation do not need to see that again.

Well he should have never stabed his union brothers in the back and crossed that line. My grandfather was also in the Teamsters. He loved hoffa. My dad told me storys where he would get into a fist fights with a non-union workers if they talked down on the teamsters or hoffa. I am not union but i do support them 100% i will not cross a line no matter what. My grandfather went from like 7/hr back in the day to 10/hr overnight all because his shop went union. If my pay went up that much i would love hoffa and the teamsters too. His shop also told all the men they were going to close the doors if they went union and told them all not to vote it in. Guess what they are still trucking too this day.

In my eyes Jimmy Hoffa was a great man and did alot in his time for the blue collar truck driver.