That's just the thing, Hobo. He should NOT be defending his actions in any way shape or form. Defending himself only indicates that he hasn't learned anything.

You rear-end another truck because you are going too fast in fog, you darn well better thank your stars for your "luck" and not look at defending each and every action that led up to it. And yet that's what he did...coming down on "lifers" who at first stayed pretty neutral. But the excuses get old. I've got kids...I expect excuses from them. Grown adults shouldn't have to expect excuses from grown adults when the situation and blame is as obvious as it is.

Just sayin'...

 

I know that T/F.... and YOU know that. Now, read his FIRST post on THIS thread.... then skip down to Diesel's. Then get back to me with an answer to my 1st concern that you quoted.

Why do we call noobies "wet behind the ears?" Because, they aren't much different than children. They're learning to ride a bike, and they don't want to hear it was their fault they spilled it. Again, I don't defend HIS defense of his gadgets AT ALL. But, I think THEY were blamed quite early on! I just think the WHOLE thing could have been handled differently, and I'm surprised at how some here ALWAYS choose to handle this!

I don't know about YOU.... but MY Dad never got very far with me by calling me an IDIOT. He usually sat me down and explained what went wrong. Then, he let me come to the realization that I had made a mistake. Now, as a Safety Director, this may not be part of your job. But, I would certainly think it comes under Training. If you don't TRAIN them properly.... you get the SAFETY rating you deserve. Just sayin.... :wink:

I hear what Matcat is saying.... and it doesn't SOUND like he's learned. But, MAYBE he HAS learned but doesn't want to admit it under duress. And right NOW he is angry at the "sytem!" I don't blame him. I know what an accident can mean in this business. I ALSO know that the business is cutthroat and bottom line conscious. And so do you. And we ALL know that insurance companies are all about profits and NO LOSSES. Why even HAVE them?

I say again.... IF you're not going to give adequate training in the first place, then you need to take YOUR lumps (as a company) as well! And how many Safety Directors are PROACTIVE in the training process.... and how many just crunch numbers for the Insurance Companies?

I have had MANY "safety sensitive" jobs in my life. I have NEVER seen such lack of involvement by those in charge of it as I do in trucking. A few boring videos just doesn't CUT IT in my book! I'm NOT aiming this at YOU!

Maybe I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But, at least it won't cost me the job that feeds my (make believe) family! Maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong. But, you won't get far telling me I'm spewing dangerous ideas and should be working at Mickey D's! :lol:

If you don't get "through to me" the FIRST time, I will understand your frustration. But, if you give UP after the first time, and resort to ridicule, I'd have to question your qualifications for the job you have.

JUST my opinion..... just food for thought.

 

No I do not need coddling, but finally someone who atleast understands how I FEEL in this situation, and looking past the result to see more to it. Poor training, I hate to admit it, but probably so, hard for ME to say because I don't know any more then what I was taught, so I cannot make a comparison to say how good it was or not was, no point of comparison to make. I took what I was taught and did my best with it, nothing more I can add to it then that.

 

And maybe I could have just TRAINED him better! I'll tell you ONE thing, if I had been "road testing" my LAST partner, he'd NEVER have gotten the job! Heck..... he wouldn't even have his CDL yet! But, the SAFETY department never cared!

Maybe YOU would just like to stick a gear shift in their hands and say sink or swim like YOU learned it! There were what.....75,000 trucks at most on the roads back then? And half as many 4wheelers?? 28 foot trailers and 2 lane roads that never SAW a 75 mph speed limit??

Hey.... I don't care if we do away with training schools altogether! I didn't really need one. But, if we DO..... and the accidents multiply like rabbits..... will you quitcher b*tchin???

 

Ok, this is probably going to be my last defense post considering that everyone else is just as hard headed as I am This entire time I have not been trying to defend my ACTIONS, I have been trying to defend my character. If you come at me and say something along the lines of, "Your just a reckless stearing wheel holder going to kill a family of 5 any time now", your damn straight I am not going to sit back and agree with you! Now if you come at me and say, "A miss judgment like that could of easily killed a family of 5", I am going to sit back for a minute and think, damn, your right! And of course I know this point already, but to take a single mistake in judgment and label me as a reckless unsafe driver just looking to kill someone eventually is complete bupkis, and in saying that I am not defending my actions, I am defending my character, because I know I am not unsafe, I made a mistake that made me unsafe in that particular moment in time, but does not make me unsafe in everything else I do. And you know what, after that accident for the 3 weeks I drove afterward, every time I hit rain, snow, or fog (And I did hit all 3), I either didn't move at all, or if I did I went slower then grandma on her strongest tranquilizers (With my flashers on), actually I was probably going even slower then need be, but better safe then sorry!

I am sorry to those I was an ass with though, and realize I was not trying to discredit your experiences, and not trying to defend my choices and actions, but only trying to defend my character which was more at attack then anything.

 

Kid....You just don't get it.


All those things you say I don't do because I "can't" do them...you say I am unable to "Multi-task". I could do all those things and more ...if I had disdain for myself and my "Profession".
Hell....I could drive down the highway...with say..a tanker full of Acrylonitrile..(it doesn't get any naster than that shit)...and I could be playing with my webcam, surfing the net...watching porn on the TV, talking on one cell phone while text messaging with the other, sending sensless messages on the qualcomm, and eating a steak dinner. I could do it safely too...right up to the point where I turn the entire unit over...split the tank in 2..spill the cargo across 3 lanes of traffic and into the stream running beside the road.
What would the consqeuences of my actions be there?
I drove recklessly...I spilled my cargo...not just any cargo either..acrylonitrile is so nasty..you are guarnteed to die, if a spot the size of a pinhead gets on you. So ..I spilled that shit all over the roadway....the people that come to my aid..all they know is that I am trapped in my truck...the stuff that spilled smells sorta odd..but looks like syrup...so they waded on through it...and pulled my sorry ass out of the truck....the rescue workers...they haven't talked with me yet...nor have they read my cargo manifest...because they can't find it...for all the food wrappers in my truck, but they went ahead and waed in..started washing that sticky stuff into the ditch...to clear the road and get traffic movong....aaaaaaaaah hell...it doesn't really matter anyway...does it???

I really can do all those things Kid...if I held myself in disdain...and did not care about my "Professionalism".

"Acrylonitrile"..it is a very real chemical...with very real consequences. When they load the trailer at the plant...that section of the plant is shutdown to traffic..motorized and pedestrian...and the loaders wear "moon-suits". When the trailer is unloaded...same story...no traffic in the plant area...and the workers wear moon-suits.
I have hauled acrylo...and the waste stream generated by it's manufacture..many times..safely and competently. In fact...you don't hear about accidents involving that specific cargo..because the people whom are chosen to haul it, have driving reputations which gaurantee that my little scenerio "does not occur".

Safety isn't an experience, it is a choice.

 

No I get it 100% completely, you haul a big bad chemical, your so special because you are one of a few, you are the safest driver in the world, so therefor you are qualified to judge anyone else. I am taking it you where typing this at the same time I was typing my previous post before this one, so you probably didn't read it while typing this, but I doubt it matters anyway, another example of a close minded hard head (A lot like me, except I'm very open minded). It is great that you managed to not make any mistakes to cost you your safety reputation, wish I could say the same. But I cannot go back in tme and tell myself to go slower in that fog, all I can do is go slower in it the next time I drive through it.

 

And just to add something about your story, that is why placards are required on the front, sides, and back of a trailer, to identify the seriousness and risks of the cargo being carried, yes I remember the nice little 30 minute safety video about hazmat and the little 10 question quiz that went along with it.