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  #11  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:32 PM
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Another thing, say they do completely abolish HOSR tomorrow, do you guys honestly think rates will go up? DOWN DOWN DOWN, as guys cut their margins even closer, and start doing 16k miles a month.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2007, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Flyer
8) Gman, did you ever think of getting into politics? 8) 8)

I was approached several years ago while I worked in a national campaign. After seeing how some of these politicians work, it can turn you against running. Besides, I think I am too candid to be a good politician.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2007, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by merrick4
Great post GMAN, but could you please give an example of how the HOS of today cost us the money. What I mean is from what I understand they have always had HOS rules but people use to run a few log books. From what I understand, except for many many years ago, drivers have been paid by the mile even in the 80's so I don't understand truly what the difference is. Why is it we make less money? I'm talking about a company driver not an O/O. Could you please give like an example like a 3000 mile week what it would look like today and what a 3000 mile week what it would look like in the 80's?.

It would be much easier for a lot of us new to the industry to actually visualize in an example A & B scenario how things have changed.

Thanks as always.


I will try to explain the way both work and how it can make a difference. With the old hos, we were allowed 10 hours driving without having a 8 hour sleeper berth. Today we have 11 hours driving before taking a 10 hour break. Under the old hos, you can drive 10 hours, take a 8 hour sleeper berth and then log another 10 hours driving. During a 24 hour period you could conceivably drive 16 hours and be compliant. With the new hos, you can drive 11 hours, take a 10 hour sleeper berth and then drive another 11 hours. However, during a 24 hour period you can only log 15 hours driving. Lets assume that you drive 5 days under both hos rules. You will be able to legally log 5 more hours driving under the old hos than with the new. If you average 50 mph each hour, then you would be able to legally log 250 more hours driving for the same period. At 70 mph average you could run an additional 350 miles during the same period. You likely will not be able to average 70 mph, but 50 is conceivable if you log legally. If you multiply 250 miles times 50 weeks, you could legally log 12,500 more miles during the same time period with the only difference being the hos rules. That assumes that my calculations are correct. The one thing I like with the new hos as opposed to the old is that you can restart your 70 hours with a 34 hour break. With the old hos, we would usually only pick up a day, which would usually be about 10 hours or so. I have taken some liberties with the total hours per week, but you could easily drive 5 days a week and be legal.

At 50 mph average driving time, it will take 60 hours to drive 3,000 miles. Under the old hos, it would take about 3 1/2 days. The new hos would take 4 days.

There are ways in which to work with the new hos and make money, but I think it would be better to get rid of the logs and hos rules. It would save everyone money. We could drive more if we felt like it or less if we were tired. We would not be penalized as with the new hos rules. There are other professions just as dangerous or hazardous as driving a truck which do not require the operator to log each work segment of their day.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
I will try to explain the way both work and how it can make a difference. With the old hos, we were allowed 10 hours driving without having a 8 hour sleeper berth. Today we have 11 hours driving before taking a 10 hour break. Under the old hos, you can drive 10 hours, take a 8 hour sleeper berth and then log another 10 hours driving. During a 24 hour period you could conceivably drive 16 hours and be compliant. With the new hos, you can drive 11 hours, take a 10 hour sleeper berth and then drive another 11 hours. However, during a 24 hour period you can only log 15 hours driving. Lets assume that you drive 5 days under both hos rules. You will be able to legally log 5 more hours driving under the old hos than with the new. If you average 50 mph each hour, then you would be able to legally log 250 more hours driving for the same period. At 70 mph average you could run an additional 350 miles during the same period. You likely will not be able to average 70 mph, but 50 is conceivable if you log legally. If you multiply 250 miles times 50 weeks, you could legally log 12,500 more miles during the same time period with the only difference being the hos rules. That assumes that my calculations are correct. The one thing I like with the new hos as opposed to the old is that you can restart your 70 hours with a 34 hour break. With the old hos, we would usually only pick up a day, which would usually be about 10 hours or so. I have taken some liberties with the total hours per week, but you could easily drive 5 days a week and be legal.

At 50 mph average driving time, it will take 60 hours to drive 3,000 miles. Under the old hos, it would take about 3 1/2 days. The new hos would take 4 days.
Very well said, GMAN. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
There are other professions just as dangerous or hazardous as driving a truck which do not require the operator to log each work segment of their day.
I can think of a perfect example, GMAN. Pickups, pulling goosenecks. How many pickups, pulling gooseneck flatbeds, actually have a log book? I have seen some, just every once in a while that actually have a DOT number. Most, dont have squat. :P DOT needs to pass a law on those pickups to run the same HOS as commercial drivers. I dont know how many times that I have seen those guys that are driving half asleep. Tell me, that a pickup, pulling a gooseneck is more safe driving 18 hours a day, than a professional truck driver, driving 11 hours a day.
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2007, 11:37 PM
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This was never a "dream" for me. It was a job that I wanted to do after I retired from business ownership. Its just a job for me. A way to make money and have health insurance since I'm still too young for Medicare, which isn't all that great anyway.

One thing I do take exception to is the issue: His article failed, however, to delve into the deeper structural issues in the industry that are driving truckers to cheat, lie, take drugs and speed.

Now granted, there are drivers who cheat and lie in their log books....but then I think that far more operate as legally as possible. I know I do, but then we (people like Cyanide and I) have more "time stamps" on us than most drivers, and much of our pay is tied to our logs. So, it is imperative that we log legally, so we do. Besides, if I can't make a decent living by logging legally.... I need to find another job. But I happen to like what I am doing....so I log legally.

But as far as "drugs and speed".... I have serious doubts about many drivers using them. Federal statistics show that a very, very small percentage of drivers tested come up positive....and it is well noted that since the inception of the CDL program that "drug use" has declined drastically. The mandatory provisions of drug testing make it more than just a gamble to fool with drugs. So, I put articles that ramble on about drivers using drugs as being little more than "sensationalism and hyperbole".
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2007, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
I will try to explain the way both work and how it can make a difference. With the old hos, we were allowed 10 hours driving without having a 8 hour sleeper berth. Today we have 11 hours driving before taking a 10 hour break. Under the old hos, you can drive 10 hours, take a 8 hour sleeper berth and then log another 10 hours driving. During a 24 hour period you could conceivably drive 16 hours and be compliant. With the new hos, you can drive 11 hours, take a 10 hour sleeper berth and then drive another 11 hours. However, during a 24 hour period you can only log 15 hours driving. Lets assume that you drive 5 days under both hos rules. You will be able to legally log 5 more hours driving under the old hos than with the new. If you average 50 mph each hour, then you would be able to legally log 250 more hours driving for the same period. At 70 mph average you could run an additional 350 miles during the same period. You likely will not be able to average 70 mph, but 50 is conceivable if you log legally. If you multiply 250 miles times 50 weeks, you could legally log 12,500 more miles during the same time period with the only difference being the hos rules. That assumes that my calculations are correct. The one thing I like with the new hos as opposed to the old is that you can restart your 70 hours with a 34 hour break. With the old hos, we would usually only pick up a day, which would usually be about 10 hours or so. I have taken some liberties with the total hours per week, but you could easily drive 5 days a week and be legal.

At 50 mph average driving time, it will take 60 hours to drive 3,000 miles. Under the old hos, it would take about 3 1/2 days. The new hos would take 4 days.

There are ways in which to work with the new hos and make money, but I think it would be better to get rid of the logs and hos rules. It would save everyone money. We could drive more if we felt like it or less if we were tired. We would not be penalized as with the new hos rules. There are other professions just as dangerous or hazardous as driving a truck which do not require the operator to log each work segment of their day.
Thank you as always GMAN. If I may, really I could go on an on asking you questions you are so informed, but was there or is there anything else different in the life of the driver of today and the driver of yor. I mean I know the climate is different, that is there was more unity among drivers as far as helping eachother out. But I mean drivers where still not paid for sitting at the docks I assume, back then either. But I guess there were less trucks on the road then too and really probably a lot more shippers as things were manufactured here back then. How has all of that affected the industry? Thanks as always for your insight and sharing your knowledge.


By the way Skywalker, as for drugs, well this isn't really speed, but a friend of mine just came off his third month of training and he kept telling me that he had something to tell me during the last month. Anyway, this guy he was with was smoking weed. I told him he was insane to stay 2 minutes in the truck with him. I mean I'm not the drug police but he could have been inhaling that stuff and got busted himself for drugs in his system. Not to sound naive or anything but I can't believe that someone would be driving and smoking, I mean talk about a quick end to your career.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2007, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
I will try to explain the way both work and how it can make a difference. With the old hos, we were allowed 10 hours driving without having a 8 hour sleeper berth. Today we have 11 hours driving before taking a 10 hour break. Under the old hos, you can drive 10 hours, take a 8 hour sleeper berth and then log another 10 hours driving. During a 24 hour period you could conceivably drive 16 hours and be compliant. With the new hos, you can drive 11 hours, take a 10 hour sleeper berth and then drive another 11 hours. However, during a 24 hour period you can only log 15 hours driving. Lets assume that you drive 5 days under both hos rules. You will be able to legally log 5 more hours driving under the old hos than with the new. If you average 50 mph each hour, then you would be able to legally log 250 more hours driving for the same period. At 70 mph average you could run an additional 350 miles during the same period. You likely will not be able to average 70 mph, but 50 is conceivable if you log legally. If you multiply 250 miles times 50 weeks, you could legally log 12,500 more miles during the same time period with the only difference being the hos rules. That assumes that my calculations are correct. The one thing I like with the new hos as opposed to the old is that you can restart your 70 hours with a 34 hour break. With the old hos, we would usually only pick up a day, which would usually be about 10 hours or so. I have taken some liberties with the total hours per week, but you could easily drive 5 days a week and be legal.
Why is it you guys want to work more hours and run more miles for more money? Shouldn't you be trying to work LESS hours and run LESS miles for more money?

Quote:
There are ways in which to work with the new hos and make money, but I think it would be better to get rid of the logs and hos rules. It would save everyone money. We could drive more if we felt like it or less if we were tired. We would not be penalized as with the new hos rules.
Do you honestly believe rates would change because of this? You'd just end up working more to get a bigger paycheck, that's all. And accidents involving Class 8 trucks would skyrocket. How many old-skool pro gearjammers are left out there who know when to shut it down? These days, it's a bunch of newbie cowboys hauling for < .40 cpm who would run that truck into the hearafter for a bigger paycheck.

Quote:
There are other professions just as dangerous or hazardous as driving a truck which do not require the operator to log each work segment of their day.
Those other professions aren't working 80+ hour workweeks.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2007, 10:42 PM
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a good read for us younger drivers that where not around during the GOOD OLD DAYS of trucking.
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:39 PM
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"All a log book does is make an honest man tell a lie"
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:13 PM
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When did the dream of trucking turn sour? What time is it. Everyday somebodies dream of trucking turns sour. Some company driver is getting a divorce because he has to stay out so long to bring home a decent check or some o/o who has been fighting the rising fuel prices that has been cutting into his profit just had his motor fold up on him. Everyday it turns sour for somebody.
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