[Jackrabbit379]

Is he a Holstein?
Is it me, or are Holstein bulls, kinda crazy?

[RedRaven]

Is he a Bull, or a Steer?... You mentioned before that he was a bull, but now your saying he's a Steer?... You can't tell from the photo, if you know what I mean... :lol: Is he intact?...

You can tell a bull from a steer in another way too... This photo it's tough to tell... But, Bulls tend to be more muscular, and stocky around the neck, and shoulders, compared to a Steer... Can't tell very well from this photo, considering he's mostly black as well... :wink:

Well Shyykatt, he looks like he's part Holstein anyway... Looks like two different animals in those two photos, by the shape, and angle of those horns... :?

You can tell a bull from a cow by the shape of their heads... Cows, should have what they call a more feminine shape to their head, more angular. The bulls have a more stocky, square shape to their head...

Well, at least you'll have a photo to remember him by... :sad: :wink:

You said, he was a little spooky, I'll take that as you mean he just doesn't come up to people, and stays away from them... Well, it depends on how he is raised, and treated... If he's handled a lot or, is used to having people around, he'll be more apt to be friendly. If he's not, or has been taught to keep away from people, he'll be stand offish, or even sometimes nervous around people...

That's why when I worked cattle, it was very important to make sure you worked with the bulls, as much as the cows... When I was around the bulls, it was important to me to make them friendly...

You don't want to be out in a pasture with bulls around, and not have them friendly, or at least accept your presence. Bulls in a pasture of cows only have one thing on their mind, and when you enter their territory (sort of speak), you had better hope that bull coming your way is friendly... :lol: :wink: If they don't like you, they can run you down pretty quick... :wink: Usually though they will warn you by lowering their heads near the ground, pawing the ground, and bellowing at you... You just need to be smart enough to know how to read them, and stand your ground... Most times they are bluffing, but, you never turn away from them... Let them turn away from you... :wink:

The people I worked with at the farm, and the owners didn't want freindly bulls. I had to convince them they would be much better off if they were freindly... It took a little time, and showing them why, to convince them otherwise... But, eventually they realized the benefit of having friendly bulls... First you can't sell a dangerous, or mean bull to any farmer. Second you don't want a mean bull chasing you down in a pasture. Third if you have to treat the animal, or load him up for transport, it is much easier if the bull is friendly, or should I say gentled, so you can handle them...

My friend told me when I first started working the farm, to stay away from the bulls, and keep an eye on them when you were out in the pasture... While there are some breeds that by nature are more aggressive bulls, like Jersey's... I told him if you don't treat them with kindness, and respect, then you SHOULD keep an eye on them, and watch your back... :lol:

I made it a point that every bull that was brought to the farm, would be gentled, if they weren't already...

Everyone on the farm called me the "Cattle Whisperer"... :lol:

But, it was true, and changing the attitudes of the owners, and workers took more time than it did to gentle the bulls... :lol: But, they did come around eventually, and they actually sold more bulls that way...

Some farmers are just raised to believe what previous generations have taught them, or what they've learned from other farmers... But, frankly, if you treat an animal with respect, and kindness, they usually will do what you ask of them... If you fear them, or are cruel to them, your asking for trouble, and you will eventually get hurt by that animal... Doesn't really matter if it's a bull, a dog, a horse, animals will pay you back given the chance, if you've been cruel to them... They are not stupid, that's for sure...

Well, thanks for the photos. It was very nice of you to take them...

[shyykatt]

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

[Jackrabbit379]

Originally Posted by shyykatt

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

Well, he would have made some decent money, selling him to a dairy for a sire. Holstein cattle dont exactly have the high quality beef as Angus, or Hereford. :P

[Watcher]

skycatt,

my wife traines horses in her spare time. we actually have a little business doing it. she trains roughly 4-6 horses thru the summer. Teaches by the "Clinton Anderson" techniques. We're out in East Texas...so she tends to fill up her schedule pretty quick with the other trainers out here...she spots them a percentage when they send someone to her.

We've got 14 acres, 5 horses and too many cats that hang out in the barn...however, haven't seen a single mouse in a looooong time!

Anyway, hope all goes well with the horses!

-Watcher

[RedRaven]

Originally Posted by shyykatt

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

I figured when you said he was a steer, that he was going for beef... Unless he has some quality milkers, your right, they will all be sold at auction for beef... If you want to see some cool looking cattle, I could show you photos of some my friend raises... But, I don't have them on my computer... I'll see if I can find similar ones on line, and post them... :wink:

Jackrabbit

Well, he would have made some decent money, selling him to a dairy for a sire. Holstein cattle dont exactly have the high quality beef as Angus, or Hereford.

Jackrabbit, unfortunately, a lot of commercial Dairy's are using AI (artificial insemination), to breed their Holstein dairy cows... If a farm does use a bull, they can easily buy a commercial grade bull for $1,000.00... That was the going price, when I worked the farm... There are a lot of bulls out there that can be bought. So, unless this bull was high quality, registered purebred, there wouldn't be the demand for him, you might think... It' just the nature of the business...

A bred heifer back then sold for on average $2,500.00... A good experienced milker could easily go for more money...

One thing you have to remember is that an average dairy cow is in use for 4 to 6 years, and to be a dairy cow she obviously has to produce a calf... Now imagine the number of cows on just one farm, and multiply the number of calves that are produced by those cows in their milking lives... You talking 4 to 6 calves per cow. If you have a herd of say 400 milking cows, then consider the number of calves produced... The numbers are high if all the calves survived... Your looking at 1600 to 2400 calves produced by just that one herd, in either a 4 yr., or 6 yr. period... Now imagine the thousands of Dairy farms out there, and all the cattle that are being produced... :shock:

This is why first of all only the heifer calves are kept by dairy's as replacement stock, and all the bull calves go to auction. Either to become veal right away (newborns are called "bob veal"), or be raised as veal calves, or go on to be raised as steer for meat slaughter... If a farm uses a bull, and has a purebred herd, using registered purebred genetics they could easily raise their own replacement bull... There just isn't the demand for bulls, and for a dairy cattle dealer the money is with the heifers, and cows...

That is why some farmers don't spend the time, or money on medications when newborn calves get ill... Sometimes they just let them die, because they are considered a by-product of the industry, and if it's not a quality calf, that they won't make any money on, they will let them die (sometimes by starvation as well)... I think it is cruel, and inhumane, and shouldn't be allowed by law. But, you have to remember the old business motto, of supply, and demand. If you have more cattle, then is needed, the value, and price drops...

One thing to remember as well, even though Angus, and Hereford are raised, and used for human meat comsumption. You also have the pet industry that also uses beef... I'm sure much of the excess cattle that are not quality animals for human consumption, go to the pet industry... Your cat, and dog, could be eating the last Holstein to go to slaughter... But, if a Holstien is beef quality it will go into the human consumption market as well... Look in your local grocery store, Angus, is being sold as a specialty beef product. The marketing being used now all says how special Angus beef is, and if you look at the price, it is expensive... Your average beef in your grocery store, could have come from any breed of cattle... Think about what beef is used for hamburgers, or your favorite fast food burger place... As long as it is quality enough for human consumption, there it will end up.

If you think things are bad in the cattle industry, don't even get me started on what happens to a lot of unwanted horses in this country... If they are not fortunate enough to find a home to live out their lives. Then they too are being sold at auction, and shipped off to slaughter houses as well... :x :sad:

If a domestic animal can be used as meat, it lives it's life in a delicate balance of survival at the hand of mankind...

[RedRaven]

Saturday 6/9/07...

Now, if you want to talk horses, today was an ironic day... The story of "Ruffian", the famous filly that lost her life in a match race with "Foolish Pleasure" on July, 6, 1975, was on television this evening... I watched it even though I had seen her original match race back then, and it broke my heart, and turned me against professional horse racing... I noticed that Ruffian's spot of white on her forehead always looked like the number 7 to me... Unfortunately the number wasn't lucky for her... It was noted in news day, that it took 5 geldings to portray "Ruffian", in the movie...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

What was ironic was that on the same day her story was to air, that another filly by the name of "Rags to Riches", was racing as the only filly in a line up of 7 horses, at the same race track Belmont park, that Ruffian had her last race, all those many years ago... She wore the number 7 as well...

Though I did not watch the race today, it turns out that the filly won the race, beating the champion colt by the name of "Curlin", in a neck, and neck race...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

It was as though the spirit of Ruffian lived again for just a moment today, and her spirit guided Rags to Riches over the finish line, to win. Rags being the only filly in the race, to beat the colts (in 102 yrs.), at Belmont Park where Ruffian herself is buried near the flag pole there(with her nose facing the direction of the finish line)...

Ruffian is the only race horse to be buried at any race track...

It somehow is almost magical, or spiritual however you wish to look at it... It was though Rags was finishing the match race, that Ruffian never got the chance too...

I heard on the news that the filly stumbled out of the gate, but, regained her composure, to go on and beat Curlin... It sent chills down my spine...

I had just watched the story of Ruffian tonight, and crying through much of it, when I heard the news that this filly Rags to Riches had won the Belmont Stakes... It just made me shed another tear, and pulled at my heart with joy...

It was like FINALLY a female, a filly had beaten the boys, on equal ground, and brought a sense of pride to females everywhere... 8)

I happened to look up Ruffian on the internet tonight, and read the tragedy that surrounded her... Both her Dam; "Shenanigans", and her Sire; "Reviewer", died within 2 months of each other... It was ironic as well that her Dam, and sire died on the same day a month apart... Shenanigans was put down on May 21, 1977, cause broken legs, and Reviewer was also put down June 21, 1977, cause broken leg.

I happen to notice that Ruffian was fatally injured on 7/6/75... If you add 7, and 6 you get 13... Ruffians entire racing career lasted only 13 months... If your someone who has any belief in the bad luck of the number 13, then you may have been a little un-nerved by it. Ruffian, and both her parents all passed from leg injuries...

As a horse lover, and hearing that this filly won today at Belmont Park, I was just glad she won, beat the boys, and didn't suffer the same fate as Ruffian, and did Ruffian proud... :wink:

[RedRaven]

Originally Posted by shyykatt

I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

ShyyKatt,

Here are just a few examples of a breed of cattle my friend raises... He raises a variety of cattle, but this breed can produce some striking colors, and markings... They are called Randall's Lineback Cattle... A rare breed, that was developed in Vermont... Oldest cattle breed in the New England area...

Here are just a few examples I found online...

Now here is a BULL!!!... :shock: Notice how muscular he is around the neck, and shoulders... That's how you can tell a bull, from a steer, without peeking underneath... :lol:

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

This next photo is a cow, and calf...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

This last photo is a cow, with a "red" colored calf... They can come in different colors, shading, and variety of markings... But, traditionally, they came in the color black... They are used for both milk, and beef, and of course they are named "Lineback", because they always have that white stripe down their back, no matter the color that goes with it... :wink:

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

Pretty cool, huh... :wink: 8)