[robertt]

You know MD.....I just read your signature line. Where do you live? Is it REALLY that bad there?

Have you heard of the disasters that have happened here in Oklahoma the last couple of years? You probably don't believe me buuttt.......you wouldn't believe HOW MUCH people here are MORE than HAPPY to "GIVE SOMETHING BACK"! Neighbor helping neighbor after our fires this year and last. Tornado's.....people that have lost EVERYTHING themselves going to help their neighbor instead of taking care of themselves first. People VOLUNTEERING time, money, and food at overwhelmed animal shelters. People this year GIVING for FREE hay by the truckloads to fellow farmers and ranchers that have been affected by the drought.

My son goes to a private CHRISTIAN school and it is UNBELIEVABLE how much "GIVING BACK" people do, and are MORE than happy to do it. You wouldn't believe how many people VOLUNTEER their TIME and MONEY to the school. People are HAPPY and GENUINE! Parents, Grandparent's, Uncles, Aunt's, former students, have MORE than givin back to what was givin to them. MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars donated to complete projects. Parents from ALL age groups VOLUNTEERING their time for dinners, sports, school projects and activities. WE, the entire school and parents and teachers and headmaster, during the school year pick different parks around the community and take a WHOLE day and VOLUNTARILY cleanup, paint, sweep, rake, the ENTIRE parks and renew them for another year.

My wife works at the school for the Athletic Director and Dean of Men and she had to set up a Charter bus for him because we have an away football game tonight. It's going to cost $660 for the bus. Guess what? Two different people DONATED the money to pay for the bus! People "GIVING BACK"

My wife had foot surgery Tuesday and you wouldn't believe the people bringing food over, VOLUNTEERING to pick up or take my son to school for us, and us actually TRUSTING someone else with our son. You'll not find better people and they are just wanting to "GIVE BACK"! And expect NOTHING in return. We have also done the same for others.

My 7yr old son and I went to the teams football camp at a CHRISTIAN camp called FALLS CREEK, look it up, for 3 nights and 4 days, and SEVERAL other Fathers, some of which didn't even have kids playing, VOLUNTEERED our time to cook and clean up after the team daily. We had a GREAT time doing it. People taking vacation time from work to VOLUNTEER their time and money and "GIVE SOMETHING BACK"!

Hopefully it's REALLY not that bad where you live. If it is, you are more than welcome to move here to Oklahoma and I would be more than HAPPY to introduce you to some HAPPY folks, including myself, although we do BELIEVE IN and CELEBRATE GOD! Maybe you can eventually get over that You will just have to put up with being surrounded by HAPPY folks. There is a house across the street from me For Sale and it is more than affordable, I'll set you up with the Realtor.

I have been all over this World and country. I have lived in Alaska and Delaware and I can't imagine living anywhere else! Hopefully it is the same elsewhere.

As a native "Okie", I/We don't have to "remember" "giving back" because we do it EVERYDAY!

[MichiganDriver]

First of all, I wasn't talking about regular folk like you or I might know. I was talking about the 1%ers. Starting with the "Me Decade" (the 1980s), they seem to be getting more and more greedy. There are exceptions, like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates to name two out of probably thousands, but by and large it's my opinion that today they are more interested in hoarding their loot than doing good things with it. And I suppose I was referring to a certain 1%er that hides his money in foreign bank accounts and seems to think that showing his tax returns would cause us to think less of him. I'm sure I wouldn't think less of him.

Secondly, you can list many, many, many, many, many acts of generosity if you want to wear out your typing fingers. Yes there are still acts of enormous generosity happening every day but it's my opinion that it's a lot rarer than is used to be.

Thirdly, it's not just me that has issues with how the filthy rich have been behaving lately, here's a Pew Research poll released just a couple of days ago:

Rich Are Admirable Greedy People Paying Too Few Taxes - Bloomberg

Didn't we give enormous tax breaks to the rich to spur investment? Where's all the investment? I'll answer my own question. The rich are smart people, very smart people. They know that the middle class in America has been gutted and is living paycheck to paycheck. Why built a factory that produces ______ if noone has money to buy _________? So they hoard the loot because they're smart. But why not do some good with it? Why not invest it even if the returns will be meager as a way to "give something back" to the great land that has done so much for them? If the rich were to start investing in America, GDP would rise and the money multipliers would all kick in and we're off to the races baby!

So for all their smarts, it's my opinion that there isn't a visionary in the bunch. We need a Henry Ford and we need him now.

[robertt]

I was under the impression that "they", the banks and the rich, are "hoarding" money because they don't know what this current administration is going to do next, with taxes and they don't know how obamacare is going to affect them. Remember? "We have to pass it to see what's in it"! Well it is my understanding from CEO's I have seen interviewed that they ARE finding out what's in it now and it's pretty ugly as far as penalties/fee's and money out of their pocket is concerned. Have you seen how it is going to affect some colleges in the very near future? But anyway, that's my understanding for the reason things are the way they are today for what you are talking about, or am I misinformed?

[robertt]

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver

Yes there are still acts of enormous generosity happening every day but it's my opinion that it's a lot rarer than is used to be.

Well I would "respectfully" disagree with you. In "my" opinion I don't think it's "rarer" at all. I know you don't like FOX, but have you ever watched it? You ought to see what people that are associated with FOX, musicians, actors/actresses, philanthrapists, CEO's, sports figures, Beck, Hannity, O'Rielly, the whole panel of "The Five", the morning crew, you ought to see what they ALL do with their time and money. You would probably have to watch it longer than you wanted too to see it all. Do you have any idea how much money, food, time, clothing, Glenn Beck gives away? His and donated stuff. Also, I know quite a few wealthy people, I'm not one of them, but ALL of them give to all kinds of charities one way or the other. Did you see what Romney did with his "inheritance"? Do you know how much money he gives to charity EVERY year? Tithing is VERY important to Mormons. His tax returns? C'mon! Your going to get me going on obama/Biden and what THEY donate to charity and I really don't want to go there, we are getting along too good

How do you think all of the homeless get fed/clothed around the entire country? Some do go hungry quite a bit, but I see plenty of lines at Jesus House's and such everyday where people are lined up for a "handout". That ALL comes from donations, rich, poor, middle class, and I've seen plenty of stories on our local news about someone wealthy or a local company donating a truck load of turkeys, clothing, or just basic foods. Some of the BIG oil companies here donate a ton to local charities. One thing around OKC is that the donations have really slowed up because of the economy, but somebody "rich" always seems to step in.

Anyway, that's the way I see it, around here anyway, I'm not as pessimistic, I see too much good, from ALL walks of life.

[MichiganDriver]

You can list charitable acts until your fingers get sore but I'm afraid it has no meaning. There are over 300 million people in this country. How fast can you type? No meaning, zilch, nada.

If someone funds legislation that saves them millions of dollars on the backs of the poor and then gives some money to the poor are they being charitable? It's open to discussion I suppose but I don't think so. I think they're greedy.

As far as the tv personalities you mentioned goes, I know this will sound cynical but it's part of their jobs. From your local radio disc jockey, all the way up the ladder to network tv, they're called upon to donate time and money to various causes and most of them do. It's a good thing, a real good thing, but it's pretty universal. Did I say it's a good thing? It's a good thing.

Edit: I forgot to address your regulation argument. Have you noticed that people who say over regulation is the problem always refer to the banking industry? Why not widgets? Is there too much regulation in the widgets business? Or computer software? Or lawn care equipment? Or hamburgers? Too much regulation in hamburgers? I seem to remember a pink slime problem just last year. The threat of regulation probably is depressing the stock prices of banks but not the thousands and thousands of other industries. Btw, have you noticed that we still haven't done squat about the Too Big To Fail problem? Hopefully the pols come up with something in case the economic meltdown was just foreplay and the big event is yet to come.

[GMAN]

I have known a number of wealthy individuals over the years. Most generously give of their time and money. Some do so without seeking any recognition for themselves. There is a foundation in my town that would rival the Ford Foundation. The founder started Coca Cola. Their foundation does many wonderful things in our area. So what if they get a tax break for their foundation or charitable contributions? I would much rather give them a tax break than rely on the government and to have them fund another bureaucracy. Rather than paying money for over paid government workers the money goes directly to the charity. We have several large foundations in my area. They NEVER seek publicity for their work. Most people probably are not even aware of the charities or what they do to make things better in our area. I would expect that they probably do charitable things in other areas.

My hometown is known as one of the most giving towns in the country. We always have strong showings for things such as Muscular Dystrophy and other important charities. It isn't just the rich who are giving. It isn't uncommon for some of the wealthy to challenge others with matching funds for charitable giving. America is a very giving nation. I still don't understand the jealousy against the wealthy. There is greed in this country, but it is not limited to the rich. Taxes paid by the rich enable the poor to live and take advantage of public services that they don't contribute. Thanks to the rich the poor don't pay their fair share of taxes in this country. Most of the wealthy did not just inherit their money. They EARNED it! Rather than envying the rich, why not strive to do more and earn more so that you can be one of the rich?

I find it interesting and sad that Obama, Biden and other Democratic leaders do little in the way of contributing to charities. They attack others who do contribute. I didn't really want to make this into a political thread, but I don't see why these political leaders would attack those who do so much for this country, especially when those doing the criticizing do so little.

[robertt]

Originally Posted by michigandriver

you can list charitable acts until your fingers get sore but i'm afraid it has no meaning. There are over 300 million people in this country. How fast can you type? no meaning, zilch, nada.

If someone funds legislation that saves them millions of dollars on the backs of the poor and then gives some money to the poor are they being charitable? It's open to discussion i suppose but i don't think so. I think they're greedy.

As far as the tv personalities you mentioned goes, i know this will sound cynical but it's part of their jobs. From your local radio disc jockey, all the way up the ladder to network tv, they're called upon to donate time and money to various causes and most of them do. It's a good thing, a real good thing, but it's pretty universal. Did i say it's a good thing? It's a good thing.

Edit: I forgot to address your regulation argument. Have you noticed that people who say over regulation is the problem always refer to the banking industry? Why not widgets? Is there too much regulation in the widgets business? or computer software? Or lawn care equipment? Or hamburgers? Too much regulation in hamburgers? I seem to remember a pink slime problem just last year. The threat of regulation probably is depressing the stock prices of banks but not the thousands and thousands of other industries. Btw, have you noticed that we still haven't done squat about the too big to fail problem? Hopefully the pols come up with something in case the economic meltdown was just foreplay and the big event is yet to come.

LOL!

[MichiganDriver]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I have known a number of wealthy individuals over the years. Most generously give of their time and money. Some do so without seeking any recognition for themselves. There is a foundation in my town that would rival the Ford Foundation. The founder started Coca Cola. Their foundation does many wonderful things in our area. So what if they get a tax break for their foundation or charitable contributions? I would much rather give them a tax break than rely on the government and to have them fund another bureaucracy. Rather than paying money for over paid government workers the money goes directly to the charity. We have several large foundations in my area. They NEVER seek publicity for their work. Most people probably are not even aware of the charities or what they do to make things better in our area. I would expect that they probably do charitable things in other areas.

My hometown is known as one of the most giving towns in the country. We always have strong showings for things such as Muscular Dystrophy and other important charities. It isn't just the rich who are giving. It isn't uncommon for some of the wealthy to challenge others with matching funds for charitable giving. America is a very giving nation. I still don't understand the jealousy against the wealthy. There is greed in this country, but it is not limited to the rich. Taxes paid by the rich enable the poor to live and take advantage of public services that they don't contribute. Thanks to the rich the poor don't pay their fair share of taxes in this country. Most of the wealthy did not just inherit their money. They EARNED it! Rather than envying the rich, why not strive to do more and earn more so that you can be one of the rich?

I find it interesting and sad that Obama, Biden and other Democratic leaders do little in the way of contributing to charities. They attack others who do contribute. I didn't really want to make this into a political thread, but I don't see why these political leaders would attack those who do so much for this country, especially when those doing the criticizing do so little.

The problem is that our economy has become a banana republic economy. It isn't healthy for the gap between the rich and the rest of us to be as great as it is. Noone (at least not me) begrudges them (hehe most of them) their money. Without a thriving middle class, we can't have a robust economy. You and Robert can list as many anecdotal stories about charity that you want and it doesn't matter. There are 300 million of us! 297 million of us can't be charity cases.

What if the Reagan Revolution is only half over? What if the rich are only half done gutting the middle class? The buck a mile backhaul will be a fond memory.

[robertt]

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver

There are 300 million of us! 297 million of us can't be charity cases.

We will be if obama gets re-elected!

[MichiganDriver]

Well Robert, thanks for helping me put a sharper point on it. I'm really not a signature kind of guy and I doubt I'll keep this one very long, but I was getting tired of looking at the old one and it was time for a change.