More Guns = Less Crime
#21
05-31-2010, 07:58 AM
Jay B asked:
Ever been on an aircraft?
The law states, and always has, that you cannot have a weapon on your person while flying. The airlines all have provisions for allowing anyone (ccw or not) to check a weapon at the departure airport and claim it at the arrival airport.
I did alot of googling about all of this today, and I found no specific mention of Canadians in any of the articles or reports.
I saw first hand that allowing the citizens to exersise their constitutional rights to bear arms lowers the crime rate.
Is it easier for you to believe that all these criminals just lost their nerve because Joe Citizen might be armed? Or that crime is down because of tougher gun laws and sentencing, more police on the street, a more focused crimefighting agenda by police, FBI and ATF?
The other thing Florida did to reduce the number of car jackings on tourists and other out of towner's was to do away with the rental car license plates and have the car rental companies remove all stickers indicating a vehicle was a rental.
And again about the Canadians. GMAN says there was a certain time of the year that they came mostly. I suppose these carjackers sat home in their underwear the OTHER 9 months of the year and ONLY came out when the Canadians were there?? Give me a break! For your info, I am not against gun ownership. I am simply in favor of some controls. I believe in registration and certain assault weapon/ammunition bans. I don't think Joe Hunter needs "cop killer" bullets or weapons of mass destruction. My point in this thread was just to point out that statistics can be used to support either side of just about ANY argument. I have seen no REAL proof that an increasingly armed public has had any effect on crime rates. That may be your OPINION, and the NRA makes sure you HAVE that opinion, but you can't prove it with any facts.
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#22
05-31-2010, 08:03 AM
geeshock said:
Heh, thier is a diference between flying and driveing. That detail makes all the diference in the world, now me knowing that many of them "drive" down here it's easy to see how they can be singled out.
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#23
05-31-2010, 10:43 AM
And I guess you believe that the criminals doing the carjacking were aware of or worried about that insignificant number of tourists? And that they specifically targeted Canadians for that reason? The number of Canadians coming to south Florida was not insignificant. Many hotels and tourist businesses relied on them for their survival. I did alot of googling about all of this today, and I found no specific mention of Canadians in any of the articles or reports. Local law enforcement did not want to alarm the Canadians due to so many businesses relying on them for their existence. At the time many Americans were not coming to south Florida due to the high crime and that Miami had become run down. Had they alerted the mass media it would have cost them millions. Another unrelated bit of information that likely also didn't make it into the news around that time were the pipe bombs. Some were attached to newspaper dispensers and when someone opened it to retrieve a paper the bomb went off. For a while it was like a war zone down there. I know a guy who had a commercial newspaper route back then and he almost opened one of them that had a bomb attached. He also witnessed a van that was blown up in front of him that was owned by another seller of newspapers. Is it easier for you to believe that all these criminals just lost their nerve because Joe Citizen might be armed? Or that crime is down because of tougher gun laws and sentencing, more police on the street, a more focused crimefighting agenda by police, FBI and ATF? The people who were involved in these crimes were not afraid of the law. They pretty much operated with impunity. There were other instances where people were car jacked at traffic lights. And again about the Canadians. GMAN says there was a certain time of the year that they came mostly. I suppose these carjackers sat home in their underwear the OTHER 9 months of the year and ONLY came out when the Canadians were there?? Give me a break! I don't remember all the details about the carjackings. I do recall the car rental agencies removing their stickers from the windows which identified them as a rental car. For your info, I am not against gun ownership. I am simply in favor of some controls. I believe in registration and certain assault weapon/ammunition bans. I don't think Joe Hunter needs "cop killer" bullets or weapons of mass destruction. It isn't the average citizen that should be feared. Those whom the police should fear are the ones who will get the guns and ammo no matter what the laws. We never had many of the current problems with guns prior to registering them. It serves no useful purpose for us to register our weapons or have limits placed on our ammunition. Since you like to dispel or use statistics perhaps you could show us how registering guns or limiting ammunition purchases has resulted in our being any safer? My point in this thread was just to point out that statistics can be used to support either side of just about ANY argument. I have seen no REAL proof that an increasingly armed public has had any effect on crime rates. That may be your OPINION, and the NRA makes sure you HAVE that opinion, but you can't prove it with any facts.
#24
05-31-2010, 11:02 AM
this is the same s most arguments. if you beleave one thing, no mater what others prove, they will never beleave you. I think HOBO is the big debater on the forums, you say it's blue, he saies it's green, lol.
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#25
05-31-2010, 12:00 PM
The thing is this..... if people make a statement that includes some reference to Obama or "socialists" or dummycrats, etc. I KNOW they are most likely parrotting some email or blog from a rightwingnut. And I go after them. SOME of these claims just have no basis in fact, nor any relationship to reality. GMAN is the worst but not the ONLY one who just seems to pull opinions out of his butt, and try to pass them off as fact. I like GMAN, but sometimes he is just so "predictable." You know... it is just darn near IMPOSSIBLE that everything wrong with this country can be blamed on one person or one party. (and yes... that would include Dubya!) I am a Centrist. I also believe in "possibilities." That means that each side might have a point, and I try to see it from both sides.... as long as they DON'T make stupid statements that show party bias. If private gun ownership DOES have some effect on crime rates, that's fine. I don't object. And there is NO LAW in this country that says you can't own that gun! But, don't try to bolster your side of the argument with skewed statistics and made up facts, all the while blaming Democrats for being anti-gun and making wild claims that we want to take away your guns cuz we're some kind of COMMIES! :hellno:
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#26
05-31-2010, 12:00 PM
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SW Desert, nowhere else man!!
Posts: 641
If it wasn't listed, I'd easily thought it would be North California, specifically, the Bay Area where most of this states crazy laws have originated from. Essentially, the coastal-urban areas wield all the political influence, and everyone else is forced to follow.
#27
05-31-2010, 02:04 PM
The way Hobo speaks it, I'm surprised he's based out of North Carolina.
If it wasn't listed, I'd easily thought it would be North California, specifically, the Bay Area where most of this states crazy laws have originated from. Essentially, the coastal-urban areas wield all the political influence, and everyone else is forced to follow. Don't let that fool you, Bent. I wasn't born OR raised here. My FATHER was, and we moved back here when I was just about done with high school. I spent my early years in Seattle, but I was too young to form political opinions. I spent puberty years in Texas, but just never got the hang of 10 gallon hats and guns. I spent 6 glorious years in the enlightened state of Colorado. But NONE of these "locations" really affected or influenced my Worldview. I spent one year in Rialto. I know you know where that is, but can't say I got the "liberal" bug from that either. I am my own man. I don't "buy into" political slogans or party politics. I see what I see, and know what I know. If anyone needs an explanation as to why I am suspect of the motives of big business.... go to the Gulf coast!
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#28
05-31-2010, 02:06 PM
Tourism makes up the largest sector of the state economy. Warm weather and hundreds of miles of beaches attract about 60 million visitors to the state every year. Amusement parks, especially in the Orlando area, make up a significant portion of tourism; the huge Walt Disney World Resort consists of four theme parks and more than 20 hotels in Lake Buena Vista, and together with Universal Orlando Resort, Busch Gardens, SeaWorld, and other major parks drives state tourism. Many beach towns are also popular tourist destinations. source: Florida Tourism Center No you didn't. You saw a drop in crime rate and falsely attributed it to the liberal gun laws. One site I visited claimed that the nearly 30% drop in violent crime was due to the implementation of the 10-20-LIFE laws! Another site mentioned how floridians were perplexed at the JUMP in violent crime in 2006. What happened? Everyone LOSE their gun that year?
Yes, it is easier for me to beleive that. Most common criminals are not smart or brave so the thought of an armed citizen defending himself would deter them.
#29
05-31-2010, 03:35 PM
Yeah, but I do it with STYLE! :lol2:
The thing is this..... if people make a statement that includes some reference to Obama or "socialists" or dummycrats, etc. I KNOW they are most likely parrotting some email or blog from a rightwingnut. And I go after them. We don't ALL parrot an email or blog. Some of us can actually think for ourselves. SOME of these claims just have no basis in fact, nor any relationship to reality. GMAN is the worst but not the ONLY one who just seems to pull opinions out of his butt, and try to pass them off as fact. I like GMAN, but sometimes he is just so "predictable." What I mention is fact. Just because you can't find it on the internet doesn't make it untrue. What I stated about Canadians and the carjackings is true. And I NEVER make statements that I don't believe are true. You know... it is just darn near IMPOSSIBLE that everything wrong with this country can be blamed on one person or one party. (and yes... that would include Dubya!) On a personal level, I have never stated that one person or party is responsible for all of our problems. However, I will give the democrats a good portion of the credit. One major problem we have had in this country is apathy and greed. That can affect both parties. It does seem that it is the democrats who seemed hell bent on destroying our freedoms. Both have a good portion of the blame. Oh, excuse me, the democrats feel that it is everyone else who is to blame.....especially George Bush. I am a Centrist. I also believe in "possibilities." That means that each side might have a point, and I try to see it from both sides.... as long as they DON'T make stupid statements that show party bias. They should show a party bias. Otherwise, there would be no need for multiple parties. It is only that they should put party politics aside when they start to take care of the nation's business. Unfortunately, they both put party interests ahead of the nation's interests. I would prefer that BOTH parties adhered to the constitution. It would solve many of the differences. If private gun ownership DOES have some effect on crime rates, that's fine. I don't object. And there is NO LAW in this country that says you can't own that gun! But, don't try to bolster your side of the argument with skewed statistics and made up facts, all the while blaming Democrats for being anti-gun and making wild claims that we want to take away your guns cuz we're some kind of COMMIES! :hellno: It is easy to label the democrats as anti gun. It is the democrats who have attempted to circumvent the 2nd amendment and take away our guns. It is the democrats who have put a 2 year shelf life on ammunition. It is difficult to NOT label the democrats as anti gun when they propose such legislation. And although you label yourself as a centrist, I noticed that you called yourself a democrat in the above post. I highlighted it so that you could easily see it. And as far as I am concerned a commie is a commie. I don't make a distinction between any of you.  Sorry, I just had to say that, Hobo.
#30
05-31-2010, 03:48 PM
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SW Desert, nowhere else man!!
Posts: 641
Don't let that fool you, Bent. I wasn't born OR raised here. My FATHER was, and we moved back here when I was just about done with high school. I spent my early years in Seattle, but I was too young to form political opinions. I spent puberty years in Texas, but just never got the hang of 10 gallon hats and guns. I spent 6 glorious years in the enlightened state of Colorado. But NONE of these "locations" really affected or influenced my Worldview.
I spent one year in Rialto. I know you know where that is, but can't say I got the "liberal" bug from that either. I am my own man. I don't "buy into" political slogans or party politics. I see what I see, and know what I know. If anyone needs an explanation as to why I am suspect of the motives of big business.... go to the Gulf coast! I've lived in CA since I was four, but was born in rural Illinois. The way I act whenever I go to downtown LA or any urban area I tend to freak many out with my non-accent and slightly right views. If I didn't tell anyone, many would suspect I was from TX, OK, or somewhere along those lines. Essentially, I've felt like a total outsider here for as long as I could remember. On the topic of Illinois and firearms though, I've read up on that FOID thing they've had out there since '68, sort of a knee-jerk over-reaction to things that got blown out of proportion. Last edited by bentstrider; 06-01-2010 at 10:49 PM. Reason: typos and such |
