[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer

Liberals are starting to panic and therefore, are getting extremely defensive. Can't say I blame them with the level of destruction their president is ladeling out over OUR country. They know their time is pretty much up and after the 2010 election annihilation looming over them, they will never be heard again.

Personally, I think it's rather amusing. Nothing gets a liberal's dander up more than challenging the health care sham that the current dictator-in-chief is trying to ram down our throat.

I really need to get a countdown clock in my sig line, counting down the days to the END of their messiah's one and ONLY presidential term and the END to the worst mistake this country has ever made.

And who do you think will replace these anti christ liberals that are destroying this place?

Maybe those who destroyed it before them or some other bunch, or do you think that republicans are somewhat better? You only have two choices, one more than a dictatorship, and for you to think that one is better than the other one when they both wheel and deal with each other, speaks about the very problem you are trying to fix, that to reform political system in this country you need to bring more choices in...which aint gonna happen...

[golfhobo]

Jackrabbit379 said:

It sounds like they don't want us to have good health insurance.

Only if you listen to the lies coming from the GOP. Just how good IS your insurance?

You pay your premiums all your life (and those premiums are growing faster than inflation OR your wages,) then when you get sick, the insurance companies find a way to deny your benefits or minimize the procedures they will cover.

If they can tie it to a pre-existing condition? DENIED.

If they HAVE to pay.... YOU pay ever-increasing deductibles FIRST.

THEN, if it becomes a very expensive operation or care, they CAP the amount they will pay in any given year. You may have to wait until NEXT year to get that "life-saving" operation if you've already exceeded your coverage cap.

If you lose or change your job, and you now have a record of illness and treatments, they become "pre-existing" conditions and your "next" company plan will not cover them and/or your rates will skyrocket!

In addition to all of THIS.... you get to pay more taxes each year to cover the cost of skyrocketing costs of Medicare for those who get it....

AND you get to pay for the "uninsured" to go to the (expensive) Emergency Room for every little cold their child gets!

They would rather have everyone have the same insurance.

This is called "single payer" insurance like Canada has... but, STILL is not the same as gov't CONTROLLED healthcare. Although Obama is on the record as "favoring" this simplified form of health insurance, he is not pushing it as he realizes America doesn't want it.

The current proposals would allow you to KEEP the insurance you have now. It would ALSO force the company you have to "play fair" by eliminating the practices I mentioned above. It would also make COBRA more affordable if you should lose/change jobs and need to continue your current coverage (without company contributions) while looking for another job and/or insurance policy. [Is any of this sounding really BAD to you yet?]

And lastly, it would reduce your tax burden for the uninsured by "forcing" or "helping" the majority of the uninsured to GET at least a basic policy. It would "gain" the concessions from the insurance companies by increasing the number of policies (and premiums) they would sell by "requiring" participation by those who are currently "gaming" the system.

I don't know what difference it makes. Why does President Obama even bother with it?

He "bothers" with it for several good reasons:

1) It will reduce death and serious illness in society by providing "preventative" care for millions who now only see a "gov't" doctor when it is too late.

2) It will increase disposable income for families (which will stimulate the economy) by REDUCING their current healthcare costs. [Catastrophic healthcare costs are the NUMBER ONE cause of individual bankruptcies today.]

3) It will STOP the practices of denial of service, benefit caps, and selective rate increases that are currently "redistributing wealth" from the Middle and lower classes to the rich insurance magnates that are giving themselves bonuses for how well they "save" their companies money by screwing their policyholders.

4) It will protect MANY of our Senior citizens from having to choose between their medications and FOOD...

5) And most importantly.... it will stem the out of control healthcare costs that the GOV'T has to pay each year, that is already the largest part of the deficit, and in future years, will ABSOLUTELY bankrupt the U.S. Government!

So, I guess he "bothers" with it because it IS the number one financial issue of our time, it is LONG PAST due for reform, and because it is the RIGHT THING TO DO.

I don't understand it. We have more problems in the country and even the world, and he's trying to get everyone on some government insurance.

We actually have few problems that are more important than this one... OR as costly. Gov't expenditures on healthcare are about the same as military spending... and will soon surpass it.

Healthcare cost is ONE of the biggest expenses for employers... a "job killer."

We are having obvious problems with providing healthcare for our retirees NOW. What do you think will happen when the Baby Boomers all retire and your children have to pay for our healthcare?

And... he is NOT trying to get everyone on some Gubmint insurance! NOR is he trying to "take over" American healthcare! The GOP fearmongers are LYING to you, at the very least... DISTORTING the truth, to protect the profits of the big insurance companies that are padding their wallets... AND to deny a Democratic victory in such an important arena because it would be the death of their "party of NO."

As for the "so-called" fines and imprisonment? I'll discuss this more later. But, it is more lies and distortions from them. Put it this way.... if you are a truckdriver making about $40,000 a year with a family of four, and you don't think you can afford to have insurance (and your company doesn't offer it,) you would be "helped" to afford it. And if you REFUSE the "help," you would pay less than $500 a year in "FINES" to avoid going to jail. And for that minimal "FINE," you could continue going to the emergency room with your ENTIRE family..... at MY EXPENSE.

Wabbit, I chose YOUR post to offer this response to because I KNOW you are a man of common sense and basic concerns. What do you think? Does this sound like the "socialist" takeover you've been told about? Or does this sound like what the average American has been wanting for years now?

Hobo

[Mr. Ford95]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

And who do you think will replace these anti christ liberals that are destroying this place?

Maybe those who destroyed it before them or some other bunch, or do you think that republicans are somewhat better? You only have two choices, one more than a dictatorship, and for you to think that one is better than the other one when they both wheel and deal with each other, speaks about the very problem you are trying to fix, that to reform political system in this country you need to bring more choices in...which aint gonna happen...

Actually, you could vote for someone outside of the 2 major parties. There is more than just 2 to choose from but those 2 hold all the big money so they are the only 2 you ever hear about.

Hobo, my private insurance rose by $50 but it was my choice to have an add-on in case the wife and I decide to have a little one. Outside of that it has not risen. We've yet to have a problem with things being covered, my parent's have the same company but a different plan, littlest brother had to get a $20K operation over Thanksgiving for his appendix, it was covered in full once the deductible was paid with no questions asked. You say Obama getting involved because he cares and it will reduce death and serious illness, what about the provision of the elderly having the plug pulled on them prematurely? Who doe she think he is, Dracula? That is what Dracula did in 15th century Romania, anyone sick, poor or elderly he had killed off. Under Obama's favored plan, if your given only a small chance of life he says that your to be left alone to die that it would cost too much under the current system or his to take care of you.

Bent, you aren't lying there about education at the college level. How about the expense of books, what a joke. Most profs require a certain book(s) and usually you have to always buy it brand new because it's a new book for $300 but try to sell it, your lucky to get $50 out of it even if you never opened it once.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

Hobo, my private insurance rose by $50 but it was my choice to have an add-on in case the wife and I decide to have a little one. Outside of that it has not risen.

You must not live in California, Rhode Island, or just about anywhere in the U.S.

Anthem Blue Cross delays major rate increases

Anthem's parent company defends health insurance rate hike - Los Angeles Times

Update: Health insurers seek rate hikes - Projo 7 to 7 News Blog | Rhode Island news | The Providence Journal

what about the provision of the elderly having the plug pulled on them prematurely?

Still getting your "news" from FAUX News?


:hellno:

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Jackrabbit379

GMAN, the War Between the States was terrible, but I love the history. My wife tells me that I should get my degree, and be a historian. :lol:
Blue and the Gray is one of my favorites.

It was a terrible time in our history. It is interesting. I live near Chickamauga Battlefield. We have a very nice Civil War museum that you would enjoy. There are period dress and weapons you would probably enjoy seeing. This was the second bloodiest battle of the Civil way with well over 30,000 casualties in 2 days. I find that amazing that we could have so many casualties with so primitive weapons as they had back then. Chickamauga was the first National Park in the U.S. If you get in the area you would really enjoy visiting the park. It is a beautiful park. We used to go there when I was growing up. You will also find a lot of deer around dusk.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

Yeah, and i can only imagine what else you believe in.....

I believe in GOD, family and country. I believe that we have an obligation to take care of ourselves and our families. I believe that we have an obligation to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. I don't believe that we have a right to have the government take care of our needs. The government should serve the citizens. At this point in our history the citizens are serving the government. Our country works best when there is little government involvement. The more government becomes involved in our lives the less efficient and more costly things become. It would be much better if we reduced the size of our government by at least two thirds. We could eliminate much of our tax obligations. If we got rid of most of the taxes and government then we could more easily afford to take care of our own needs. If we went back and adhered to a strict constitutional government then the discussion about healthcare would not be necessary. We do not have a healthcare crisis in this country. We do have a healthcare industry that is out of control. Competition and tort reform would solve most of those problems about affordability. We still have the best healthcare system in the world. Socialism is not the answer. Socialism is inefficient. Socialism takes away the incentive to produce or be productive.

I know that the more government gets involved in our healthcare the less efficient and costly it will become. I know this because of history. There is NO healthcare crisis.

[Jackrabbit379]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Wabbit, I chose YOUR post to offer this response to because I KNOW you are a man of common sense and basic concerns. What do you think? Does this sound like the "socialist" takeover you've been told about? Or does this sound like what the average American has been wanting for years now?

Hobo

It does make sense, yes.. If I would have the same 'coverage' as I have now, I would vote "yes".
Hobo, if it's not bad, then why is the GOP making it sound bad? Or is that just for politics? :lol: