[robertt]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

Don't forget to add-in that we were not the only country who sent them aid. What this country donated alone by the Haitians own figures should have covered everything. We know that wasn't true but what the rest of the world donated should have picked up the slack yet it hasn't come close..........so why do we keep sending aid to these countries when it's obvious the money doesn't go where it is supposed to go? Where was our help from the rest of the world when Katrina hit NO? All those people got were some low interest loans from FEMA and the money they got barely was enough to put a roof back over their heads. In some cases it didn't even do that. Our priorities are all screwed up, let's help the Haitians with money that will never get to the right people and leave our own left hanging out to dry.

[Windwalker]

And, seven years after Katrina, Isaac has some of the folks, that have made their homes along the golf coast, say that they will not bother rebuilding this time. They're packing up what they have left and are leaving. With all the "supposed" aid from FEMA, they were still paying for the rebuild when Isacc hit. Now, the water is up to the rooflines again. Has anyone demanded an accounting of just where the money was spent, what route it took, and just who all got commissions from handling it?

I saw several news reports on the Weather Channel from Haiti, and nearly all they showed was how things were collapsing in the tent cities. My heart goes out to all the people that were hit by it all, but what happened to the money? Where did it get spent? Who lined their pockets with it?

We have the ability, and technology, to build houses in a plant, load them onto a truck, and set them up with a crane. (I used to deliver houses for WAUSAU HOMES, and there's also ADVANCED BUILDING SYSTEMS to name a couple) In 3 years time, there were entire subdivisions around Chicago that were built this way. Obviously, it's not being utilized down there. They're actually quite sturdy, and would hold together far better than the tents I saw in the news. Also, obvious, the money is not being channeled where it's needed.

[Mr. Ford95]

We obviously did not learn our lesson from Somalia. We were sending money and food and medical supplies over there to help the people being starved to death by their own govt. Very little to none of that aid got where it was supposed to, the warlords and their band of merry men along with people in the govt. took it all. We knew that in 1995 and yet we are still sending aid over there and it's still going straight to the warlords and such. The same thing has happened in Haiti. Yes it's sad the people are suffering, we tried to help them but it did not work, so why continue to bang our head against a brick wall, a la sending more and more aid when it's obviously not getting to the right people. It's not going to make things any worse for them, they already aren't getting the aid.

As WW brought up, we STILL have people who have not gotten back up from Katrina and those that have are done living down there. They should be getting a lot more help instead of having to fend for themselves. For another example, look at the area's around Nashville when the TVA area flooded what, 2 years ago? I have a friend who was displaced by the flooding, he went to a FEMA get together to get info on help and aid available to him. He left practically in tears of disappointment and tears of sarcastic laughter. What was being offered as "aid" was a complete joke, they were told to file insurance claims first before FEMA would start any paperwork. Many people did not have flood insurance and it wasn't offered to them so they couldn't file a claim. Due to that FEMA was not willing to give them any help. They wanted everyone's homeowners insurance to take care of it. It was confusing and sad, basically they showed up to say, "hey we're not going to truly help you" without actually saying that. But hey by all means, let's send billions and trillions of taxpayer money to 3rd world countries where warlords run the show and take all the money for themselves.

[MichiganDriver]

I like your post Ford and I don't mean to quibble. But we don't spend much on foreign aid as a % of GDP. What we do spend we seem to spend foolishly, I couldn't agree with you more on that, but all in all it's not a lot of money.

Not to get political but doesn't our allergy to helping our own people stem from some people's allergy to anything that appears to be socialism? What on earth is wrong with the gubment coming to town on white horses and saving the day when people are truly deserving? Oh wait, anytime there are government handouts there are going to be abuses that the evening news can point to and get everyone riled up about. Oh well, there's no winning, there's just beer.

[golfhobo]

After seeing, and reading this thread, I called my Dad. He was THERE... ya know. I asked him some of the questions presented here. He is in direct contact with a "religious" person in the area... the people we helped build the orphanage for.

He says MOST of the "promised" money has never been sent. So.... the gov't didnt' REALLY send your tax dollars there. [UNFUNDED gov't promises.] But, of the money that was sent, MANY "suburban" cities have been rebuilt or BUILT in a fashion GMAN described... with pre-fab homes. [and they survived the recent storm.] They are way ahead of where they USED to be.

He said MANY of those still in "tent cities" considered that an "improvement" over the cardboard shanties they had been living in. This is an extremely POOR nation. During the recent tropical storm, many of them lost their "tents." They will survive.

OUR orphanage survived, as it was built solid. The country as a whole, is doing better. There never WAS a sustaining economy, and things are still tough. FACT is.... not all of the money was LOST... as it was NEVER funded and delivered! Of the money received.... MUCH has been done to improve their lives, and to build more stable structures. This info comes from an EX-military Seargent who my dad knows and who has been actively involved in the "reconstructure."

Haiti is MUCH better off today than they were before our help. In fact, that Seagent said the earthquake was a "blessing" of sorts... because it focused world attention on their plight, and money poured in... and improvements were made.

[repete]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

it's ALL Obama's fault, and it was a failure!

Hobo's seen the light! LOL

Did you guys know that to be considered a no profit chairity by the IRS they only have to spend a min. of 10% of the raised funds on the actual chairity?
Ever look up the pay scale for some of these non-profits? Don't! It will just pizz you off.

[Mr. Ford95]

Easy bud no need to go off quite like that.

Hobo, good info to know because all the media has been showing is that all that money "sent" has gone to waste in Haiti. Just like all the money that has gone to Iraq for rebuilding, the media has harped on it being wasteful yet soldiers on the ground said it had done wonders and the people were actually happy with us. We do know that all the money and aid to Somalia did go to waste for fact. The situation there is still the same mess it was more than 15 years ago. We've just simply helped arm all those Somali pirates hijacking boats.

[golfhobo]

I deleted that last line in my post... BEFORE... I even saw Robertt's rant about it. I, too, couldn't figure out where it came from. I DO that sometimes... so SUE me! Or.... if you're robertt, go ahead and attack me and call me names. Whatever...

[golfhobo]

Okay, let's go back and look at robertt's post. I should have clicked on the links when I first read it, but I didn't. After robertt's first paragraph, which WAS just a question with a jab of its own about how SOME of us know where the money went, the rest seems to be from an EMAIL that I cannot find attributed to CBS's website, per se. I WONDER where it came from?

The first link is titled "3 months after..." but it doesn't go there. It goes to a CBS page titled "HAITI... on the road to recovery." On THAT site, there IS a video taken after only 3 months had gone by, but there is ALSO a link to a video about a state of the art hospital two years after the quake. Go there and watch THAT one and see what the people on the ground say about the "recovery" and aid. [and free healthcare.]

The second link does go to a discussion of the money "promised" but it has been reformatted (in the email) in bullet form. No problem there... the figures are correct. But, the implication that each victim should have seen a $10k bump is misleading.

At any rate... take away the almost 9 Billion from OTHER countries and World bodies, and the 4 Billion from charities and NGO's, and you have about $2.2 Billion from U.S. taxpayers (less than half of one year's tax credits to big oil.)

As for where all THAT money went? Well, I think it was in the last few seconds of the video about the hospital, that I heard that the number of tent housing has been cut by 65%. Also... as my Dad pointed out... much of the money "spent" by the U.S. gov't went to pay for U.S. military assistance and personnel. That's just the way these things are "accounted for."

No doubt, the pace of reconstruction has been slow. And who knows if the other countries have made good on their pledges. But, I don't think we can "conclude" from some email that the money has been wasted, stolen or mismanaged by the Obama administration which (I hope I'm wrong) seems to be the point in robertt digging up this old thread.

[golfhobo]

I see robertt's post was deleted. Don't know if it was by HIM or the mods. Either way I appreciate it. To a LARGE extent, he was right! I think I probably deserved everything (well most of it) that he said about and against me. I was NOT "baiting" anyone. And I sincerely apologize to anyone (especially robertt) if they thought I was... or for any other insinuations I made.

I DID start out just to post an update/answer to the extent that I KNEW anything about it (from my Dad.) But there WERE incongruities in the "email," and y'all KNOW how I react to that. [Hobo smiles weakly... missing a tooth... and shuffles his feet and then shrugs his shoulders.]

Since so many here have admitted that they "pass over" my posts, I suppose I should thank robertt for showing interest in (the first part of) this one. And I DO thank you, robertt.

FWIW... I, too, would like to see an "audit" of the money spent or promised to Haiti. And I would like to make sure that EVERY dollar spent or promised actually DOES some good there. And I think the SAME standards should be applied to any gov't (FEMA) money promised or "spent" for the victims of Katrina and any OTHER disaster in this country. Every dollar makes a difference to these people. And ANY dollar lost or stolen is half a days work for the people of Haiti.... and a significant loss to even the people of America who may be in need.

If robertt was ONLY looking for an update on the fiscal responsibility of our gov't regarding the Haiti reconstruction/rescue mission...he could have worded his opening paragraph a little differently... but he is what he is...as am I. Still, it was ME who crossed the line (for whatever reason.) And I have apologized for it. And do so again.

If anyone is wondering... NO. I have received no warning or threat from a mod to make this apology. I have always said that when I am wrong I will admit it... and I was wrong.

So, let's move on... you know... FORWARD!