[LightsChromeHorsepower]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I remember exactly how things were in California before all the changes started to occur. The current governor may call himself a republican but he is no more a republican than Colin Powell. Both are liberals who wrap themselves in the conservative mantra. The liberals have been in control of California for several decades. I think the state made a major turn under Jerry Brown and it has continued on a long, steep downhill slide ever since. Californians are over taxed and under represented. They have allowed the inmates to take over the asylum. At one time California was a fairly conservative state. Taxes were low as was the cost of living.

It was Reagan who destroyed the state, slashing services to the point of closing all the mental hospitals (Which put all the crazies out on the street, creating the state's reputation for having crazy people out on the street). As for taxes, California still doesn't crack the top ten in overall tax burden, although given the amenities and quality of life we enjoy it should probably have the highest taxes of any state.

[LightsChromeHorsepower]

My California-

[avc]

Don't forget Nixon, the failure (father) of the Republican party and the biggest fraud of any President, he was the one who not only ruined California, he ruined the entire nation and had to resign in disgrace.

The man should have been put in prison and all his Sons (Bush, Cheney, Kissinger, Rumsfeld) should have been banned from ever serving in government for the rest of their lives.

The Dem's were to dumb to do this, that would have been American Justice and we have been paying for that mistake to this very day.

[Hanzzsolo]

Originally Posted by LightsChromeHorsepower

The real origin of our problems goes back to Jarvis-Gann, (aka Prop 13) which was a Republican movement from the get go.

Why does everyone (liberals especially) blame Prop 13 for everything. Were you there when it passed? Do you even know what Prop 13 is? I voted for Prop 13 and stand behind it to this day!
Prop 13 put a cap on property tax increases and any NEW taxes of any kind must be approved by a 2/3 majority in an election of the voters. It also rolled back property taxes at the time it was approved. Politicians don't like it because they can't just create or raise taxes without voter approval, so they use it as an excuse to cut school funding (always the 1st cut). Why would anyone have a problem with the voters having to approve new taxes before they are implemented? After all WHO is paying those taxes?
Prop. 13 Official Website | Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association

Wouldn't it be great if the US Government had to get the approval of the voters before creating or raising taxes?

More to the point, California needs to be more fiscally responsible. Starting with the alleged "republican" governor. He may be a registered "republican" but he sure seems more like a democrat. Case in point, look what he did with CARB. The man fired anyone who didn't agree with what he wanted to implement in regards to truck idling. Before the changes, you could run your engine IF you were IN your truck and doing your 10 hour rest. Now you must try and sleep in a truck with the sun beating down on you. I don't need to tell any truckers what that is like.

[LightsChromeHorsepower]

Originally Posted by Hanzzsolo

Why does everyone (liberals especially) blame Prop 13 for everything. Were you there when it passed? Do you even know what Prop 13 is? I voted for Prop 13 and stand behind it to this day!
Prop 13 put a cap on property tax increases and any NEW taxes of any kind must be approved by a 2/3 majority in an election of the voters. It also rolled back property taxes at the time it was approved. Politicians don't like it because they can't just create or raise taxes without voter approval, so they use it as an excuse to cut school funding (always the 1st cut). Why would anyone have a problem with the voters having to approve new taxes before they are implemented? After all WHO is paying those taxes?
Prop. 13 Official Website | Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association

Wouldn't it be great if the US Government had to get the approval of the voters before creating or raising taxes?

More to the point, California needs to be more fiscally responsible. Starting with the alleged "republican" governor. He may be a registered "republican" but he sure seems more like a democrat. Case in point, look what he did with CARB. The man fired anyone who didn't agree with what he wanted to implement in regards to truck idling. Before the changes, you could run your engine IF you were IN your truck and doing your 10 hour rest. Now you must try and sleep in a truck with the sun beating down on you. I don't need to tell any truckers what that is like.

I'm a 3rd generation California native, still in the same county both sides of my family started in.

the economic distortions caused by Prop 13 are probably both too numerous to list here and too intellectually complex for you to grasp. Why should a new homeowner pay 10 times (or more) the property taxes that their next-door neighbor pays on an identical property? Do you understand that Prop 13 has resulted in the mallification of California as cash-strapped counties and municipalities have rushed to make sweetheart deals with developers so they could get the sales tax revenue? A couple of years ago, as a real estate agent, I was working with a woman who wanted to sell her home and buy another property. She couldn't afford the taxes on an equivalent new purchase. So she is still living in the same home in which her late husband blew his brains out. I think Prop 13 is a great lesson in the law of unintended consequences and a good example of how the California initiative process can muck things up more than it can help them.

I am in complete agreement with you about CARB and idle laws.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by avc

Don't forget Nixon, the failure (father) of the Republican party and the biggest fraud of any President, he was the one who not only ruined California, he ruined the entire nation and had to resign in disgrace.

The man should have been put in prison and all his Sons (Bush, Cheney, Kissinger, Rumsfeld) should have been banned from ever serving in government for the rest of their lives.

The Dem's were to dumb to do this, that would have been American Justice and we have been paying for that mistake to this very day.

I am afraid that you have been grossly misinformed about Nixon. He was not related to Bush, Cheney, Kissinger or Rumsfeld. He essentially resigned over a cover up for his people. If you want to bring up history and think about who should be in prison you need to go back to the 1960's. Kennedy, McNamara and Johnson. Perhaps Vietnam may ring a bell. This was a war that lasted more than a decade and tens of thousands of American lives were lost. It is a war that could have been won in a year or less. Kennedy got us into the war and Johnson along with McNamara escalated it all the while lying to the American public. Johnson entered office with modest means and came out of the presidency a very wealthy man. Kennedy botched the Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba and cost the lives of many Cuban nationals and allowed Castro to become entrenched in office. I wasn't particularly fond of Nixon, but I do think that he was one of the better presidents we have had, especially when it came to foreign policy. He kept his promise to get us out of Vietnam. Nixon had nothing to do with running California. The economy was doing very well under most of his administration. I do believe that he had some problems toward the end of his final term. I never really trusted Kissinger, but he seemed to do well in his position, as I recall.

Most democrats were much more conservative during the 1960's, especially in the south. Southern democrats of that era were more conservative than most of today's republicans.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Hanzzsolo

Why does everyone (liberals especially) blame Prop 13 for everything. Were you there when it passed? Do you even know what Prop 13 is? I voted for Prop 13 and stand behind it to this day!
Prop 13 put a cap on property tax increases and any NEW taxes of any kind must be approved by a 2/3 majority in an election of the voters. It also rolled back property taxes at the time it was approved. Politicians don't like it because they can't just create or raise taxes without voter approval, so they use it as an excuse to cut school funding (always the 1st cut). Why would anyone have a problem with the voters having to approve new taxes before they are implemented? After all WHO is paying those taxes?
Prop. 13 Official Website | Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association

Wouldn't it be great if the US Government had to get the approval of the voters before creating or raising taxes?

More to the point, California needs to be more fiscally responsible. Starting with the alleged "republican" governor. He may be a registered "republican" but he sure seems more like a democrat. Case in point, look what he did with CARB. The man fired anyone who didn't agree with what he wanted to implement in regards to truck idling. Before the changes, you could run your engine IF you were IN your truck and doing your 10 hour rest. Now you must try and sleep in a truck with the sun beating down on you. I don't need to tell any truckers what that is like.

It was the people of California who helped put the brakes on property taxes with Prop 13. I would also like to see any tax increases put to a vote before the government could raise them. California is in the current condition due entirely because of fiscal irresponsibility and now they want the U.S. taxpayers to bail them out. They need to cut spending and start getting rid of all the fat. It is time they started cutting departments and payroll. They have been buying the California voters for years with all the freebie's. It is time to pay the piper. The U.S. government is also sewing the seeds to be in the same position within a short time. California has raised taxes on businesses so much that they have had an exodus of thousands of businesses to other states such as Arizona and Nevada. You would think that these people would have learned by now. When the politicians want to squeeze more money from the taxpayers and they can't do it without voter approval they usually cut school funding since they know that parents will cave to make sure their children have a good education. It would be much better of we got government out of education. That way our children would stand a much better chance of actually being educated and it would take the politics out of their hands. Going back to a constitutional government would solve most of our governmental fiscal problems. Of course, you would need to educate most people on what that actually means.

[avc]

Nixon, the gravest criminal ever to grace the White House was the spiritual father of Cheney, Bush Senior, Kissinger and Rumsfeld who all got their start in the Nixon White House, he is the father of the modern Republican party.

Next you need to study what really put California in the hole, it was the Natural gas crisis engineered by the Cheney Energy Task force and Ken Lay who plotted with Cheney and Kissinger to form the policy of that fraudulent and secretive scam that came out early in the first Bush Junior administration.

This was the prelude to the run up of the Iraq oil grab that also was in the playbook for Kenny Boy and Fat Dick who are both frauds, funny that Ken Lay had a massive heart attack after being convicted of fraud while waiting to be sentenced for the massive Enron fraud, it was very convenient time for him to die too, especially for Cheney and Kissinger, who are responsible for rigging the oil markets for the last 8 years that ruined the entire world economy and the American banking system.

[LightsChromeHorsepower]

I hate to counter GMANS opinions with facts, and I've only got time for a couple, but........

1. If you split California off from the rest of the country we would be the 6th or 7th largest economy on the planet. That's not a sign of a place that is suffering from an exodus of businesses. I will concede that businesses are leaving, and point out that Prop 13 is a factor- It's hard to start or grow when a competitor that's been in their facility for an extended period of tie is paying a fraction of what you will pay in property taxes on your new plant. But still, for every one that leaves two or more are started in their place. The state is the global center for innovation and new technologies. Some of them crazies have ideas that work.

2. If you think Vietnam could have been won in a year I want to meet your connection. You're smoking way better stuff than I can find. (And that's pretty impressive considering Cali grows the best on the planet) If that's the case, why couldn't the French handle it? Nixon was far from the worst modern president. He saw that it was unwinnable and got us out.

I do agree with you about some changes that need to be made. I was reading a local paper today. Our County Board of Stupidvisors is balancing the budget via wage reductions and layoffs. Guess how many management level positions are being eliminated or having their salaries cut? We have entire departments/boards in state and county government that could be eliminated entirely. Instead they've basically eliminated our county's mental health department There is no way prison guards should be making 250K per year. I could rant on for hours but I have to go to work.

[GMAN]

You can trace much of our current high fuel costs back to the 1960's when congress allowed Aristotle Onassis to buy super tankers to transport oil from the Middle East. Prior to this sale it was illegal to sell super tankers to anyone outside of the U.S. They went along with it due to Onassis's friendship with Jackie Kennedy. It allowed OPEC to began controlling distribution and higher oil prices. At that time oil was selling for about $2/barrel, as I recall. You can't really blame a single administration or individual for what is going on now. But worldwide events usually play out over a number of years. If you want to be honest about current events you need to blame both parties. Congress has much more to do with many of these events than any president.