This is one of the biggest arguments against unions.

 

This is a hard one for me, I have lots of friends and relatives that work and are dependent on unions. I live in Michigan and a majority of my town is one way or another involved in the auto industry. I spent the better part of 10 years doing nothing but picking up and delivering to union auto plants and I have never been treated with more disrespect or should I say indifference as I was in those plants, not one or two but 30 some odd plants. The thing is unless you were holding them up from going home then you were basically invisable to the fork lift drivers. They could take 5 minutes one day to unload 5 racks and 3 hrs the next.

I always did my level best not to do anything that would prolong my stay in those plants and never questioned what was going on, it wouldn't have matter if I had been a stripper giving away free lap dances, if they were not going to unload me then that was it period end of story. You always got a feeling of them thinking they were superior to you the low life trucker.

I don't have much experience with union truck drivers except when I worked for a local company that was a union job, but I think that was more of a show so that we could get the contract for Buick City in Flint. We made a little over $8hr and we were treated pretty bad by managment and never got much protection form our weekly dues.

I also don't think that the industry would much better off with union representaion in the Mega carriers, I would think that productivity would go way down within those companies, but that is jmo. Around my house the gravel trains make anywhere from $65-$105 and hour and those guys never go over 50mph no matter what road they are on.

I also know that not every union member takes advantage of the system and they put in a fair days work, but also those same guys have no more or less advantage than the guy working right next to them that is a complete F up.

 

Mike3fan you touch on a couple of my personal pet peeves that I have with unions. The same wages regardless of productivity is a big one for me. I feel that if a guy works hard he should be rewarded. I another slacks off then he should be penalized. That isn't the union way. Everyone makes the same regardless of productivity. After a while the guy who is working so hard sees those who are not doing their fair share of the work making the same money gets discouraged and starts to slack off himself. So what we see is less efficiency from the workers and higher operating costs for the company. Another issue is the seniority issue. I have somewhat mixed views about this one. I think that the person with seniority should be given preference with all things considered being equal. I think it would be better to give the job to the one most qualified. I must say that I was quite surprised at how many voted that they were members of a union.

 

I was a member of IBTU years ago, before I started driving. I don't know how it is with drivers, but from my own experience, it really would not have mattered much if I had been a member or not. Another division went out on strike, and I was out of a job for a couple of weeks. The working conditions were what they were because of union efforts, but the strikes seemed to come more from "nit-picking" than anything else. The big issues were handled years before. For the most part, unions are like the big comfortable cars we used to have. They've served their purpose, and are currently outdated.

However, I do feel that truck drivers, in general, need a union and the ability to call a strike with a few issues that seem to arise from one company to another.

 

:clap::smokin:

 

I have never been a union driver but I worked in a union factory for 10 years and to tell you the truth the factory would still be running if it didn't have a union. Unions are good when they are needed but they don't believe in anything but take they never wont to give. You can only take so much before something has to give. The factory I was with told us we need some back or we may have to shut down. The union told all the workers "that's a lie, never give back" so we didn't and they told us we had less than a year. If unions would just back off sometime not all the time but sometime then maybe they wouldn't drive the company's into the ground. GM needs to go chapter 11 and force the unions to redo contracts and they would be ok. Before I piss someone off I am not talking about letting GM run all over them but they do need to give in some.

 

I tried to stay away from this topic in order to keep the flame wars down.

Plus I wanted to give my answer alot of thought first.

As a former steel hauler I can vouch for the bad experiences at the auto plants. It's unbeleivable the amount of wasted time and inefficiency. There are more lunch tables and newspapers than machines and tools. But it's not just the union it's the auto industry in general. They made big money for decades without really even trying. White collar and blue collar both. When there is that much money being made I believe the workers are entitled to their fair share. It helped make our country a great place to live. The money trickles down to everyone. But they all got lazy and complacent. Until the foreign cars showed up. Is it all the union's fault? They got out of control but I think everyone in the industry is to blame.

As for steel plants I've seen good and bad at both union and non union. I don't think it's makes a difference. But I didn't start driving until after the big steel mills had already suffered so I suspect that the ones still around are trying harder to survive. It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years ago the steel mills had the same attitude as the auto plants.

As for truck driving. Most of you know I'm in a union. However before UPS bought us we were non union. Matter of fact the teamsters waged a huge assault on the old Overnite in the 1990's that lasted for years. They never won us over. We had union scale wages and benefits and it was a good place to work. I don't think we needed the union. Now that we are, some things are better some are worse. The union rules are written because of past abuses and are there for a reason. Unfortunately those same rules get in the way sometimes and interfere with logical thinking. We could be non union and I would still work there, makes no difference to me. But when I read about the abuses that go on elsewhere in trucking I just shake my head. Personally I would not stand for it. No idling to stay warm? I dont think so. But driver's dont have a voice and they are too spread out to organize. If the new pending legislation is approved and drivers can organize with just a card check then possibly they can do something about the major abuses. I don't mean every little thing but start with the obvious. Like sitting around for 10-20 hours. It's ironic that my workplace was a good non union job that didnt need the union and joined anyway when there are many non union companies that do need a union and dont join. Possibly because they have no way to communicate with each other and come up with a plan because thay are spread out all over the country. The companies know this too. It's like "divide and conquer".

 

I can agree with you there, that is something where a union voice would be great to have. But then they might also voice opposition to a flatbedder carrying tarps up onto a trailer. They would probably say that no driver is to do it, have the forklift put them up on the load or the load doesn't move and call it a safety/health issue. Well, if the forklift is busy loading another truck by the time I get my straps done, I'm gonna get the tarps up there my darn self so I can get on down the road but the true union guys would stand there and wait on it and waste time in the process.

 

I deliver to a union grocery wharehouse and can tell you some horror stories there. Usually it's the same miserable fork lift truck driver when I'm there so when the coffee truck comes in I buy him a cup of coffee. For the $5 or $10 a week it costs me, I found I get loaded and unload and lot faster with little or no problems.

 

It is a shame that you have to bribe a union forklift driver to do his job. When I grew up Combustion Engineering had a big plant in town that employed several thousand people. It seems that the were either they were hiring more people to get a job done or laying off. Most of it was due to their union. I think that they could have had a more stable workforce if it had not been for the union. A friend of mine was a shop steward with them at one time. He had someone file a grievance on him because he cleaned up around a machine that he operated because it was taking someone else job. It didn't matter that he sat on his hands for 4 hours a day bored stiff. He finally got fed up with all the crap and quit. The pay was good as were the benefits but he just preferred to work rather than sit around playing games. The plant closed several years ago.