Twilight Flyer asked:

[Wow... more glitches. It wouldn't quote your quote of me, but said I had selected a quote from the Mt. Rushmore thread! LOL! ]

Anyway.... you quoted something I said, and left some of the text out.

I don't think you really care about my answer, but for those who might...

I actually said that I was not questioning her experience as much as her time in office. And that her time in office might impress some but not me.

Okay, I think I may have misspoke. The concepts of time in office, experience in World affairs, and intelligence seem to blur together in this case.

I admire anyone who has been elected to the highest executive office of their state (regardless of the state.) To some extent, I would say this trumps being elected as a Representative or Senator from a state.

I guess "time in office" is not as important as the experiences one has during that time. And on this point, I would have to say Obama and Palin are about equal on time. And to be honest, neither of them has enough TIME in office to really impress me.

But, I DO feel the experiences were quite different. I wonder how many homeless people are on the streets of Wassila... compared to that of South Chicago? How many unemployed or underemployed? How many who have suffered the daily onslaught of class (or race) warfare?

How big a problem are drugs, guns and race violence in Wassila... or even Alaska? How prevalent are slumlords, government indifference to asbestos in housing or taxation without representation?

IIRC, Alaska has no state income tax... the government funded mostly by taxes on the oil industry and the Federal dole. Can you say this about the lower middle class in Chicago? I'm just saying that between Obama and Palin, their "worldview" AND their focus has to be different based on their "local environs." And, IMHO.... Palin has nowhere NEAR the experience that Obama has with the problems of the middle class of America that she so blatantly panders to. If I'm not mistaken, the budget of Chicago and its environs, and the issues that must be addressed so outpace that of Alaska as to be laughable.

So.... I guess that leaves intelligence. And I cannot ignore this no matter HOW much I pizz people off!

I'm not really dissing Palin's intelligence. I'm sure SOMEWHERE behind her poor command of our native tongue there is, at least an "average" intelligence level. Again, it is difficult to believe she could rise to the level of Governor without it..... although, I'm sure it has happened in some cases. ...... But, I'm not seeing much of it.

One could call me an intellectual snob if one wanted to. I don't care. I'm on the record as saying that "average people will get you killed every time!" Bush has PROVED that! Our Congressional representatives are supposed to be, and often are, just average people from our districts.... and look where they have gotten us! :rolleyes:

It is commonly accepted fact that intelligence is often measured, or at least, displayed by one's command of the language.... the ability to compose thoughts and express them in coherent structure. Reagan had a "folksy" way about his speech, but his words and meaning were mostly always clear. Clinton was KING of talking "off the cuff" in a way that every person could understand both policy and intention. Throughout our history, Presidents have for the most part had this ability..... until Dubya.

McCain is not real strong in this area, either! By his own admission, he was next to LAST in his class at Annapolis (an appointment he admits he got because of nepotism.) I am a VET, and I honor and respect his sacrifice for his country, but has anyone ever considered that perhaps a few more nights cramming on his "tactics" might have kept him from being shot down in the first place?? I don't mean to disrespect him.... I like some things about him....especially the fact that he begged to go back into the fray when he could have gone home after the Forrestal! But, I don't vote for President because someone got shot out of the sky in a perfectly good airplane.

His recent confusion during the economic crisis enforces his own admission that he didn't "cram" enough on the economy, and IMHO, his choice of Palin was very poor judgement!

But, yes.... we were talking about her! With intelligence comes curiosity. she has shown NO evidence of any interest in affairs outside of her "remote" environs that I am aware of. Her speeches and interviews confirm this! Her total lack of understanding of the intricacies of regional politics in the Mideast and elsewhere betrays it. She has been unable to give even the BAREST of details concerning any plans to effect any of the things she and McCain are supposed to stand for. She is "stuck on Maverick.... and stuck on folksy"!

Clinton often said that he knew he wanted to be President from an early age. He dedicated his education and political career towards that end. It clearly has NEVER crossed this woman's mind! Yet, she says she is "ready" to answer the call. :rolleyes:

Now, for Obama. I do believe he had similar aspirations from an early adult age. I don't think he ever expected to get there. Much of this has been thrust on him by others, but he prepared himself for it. And he wouldn't have made it this far without above average intelligence. Like JFK, he sees a world full of hate and threat, and envisions a revolutionary way of dealing with it. Yet, he also sees the need to rebuild the faith in America BY Americans who have been disillusioned.... and knows that we don't have the military strength to go it alone in every crisis in the world.

He may not have had time to do MUCH in his Senate career, but ALL he has done has been either for the people or for the World. I don't claim he is some Messiah. But, he is an intelligent man, aware of the historical importance of his candidacy and what it might signal to the World at large, and with a dream of a more equitable structure for the re-emergence of the Middle Class in America, as well as a resurgence of our status in World opinion.

All I hear from the other camp is more of the same "Bush Doctrine" of pre-emption, Empire building, and "class privilege." .....even if ONE of them doesn't even know what the Bush Doctrine IS! :eek:

As with any election, I'll admit that change scares the heck out of me! But, at this point, I don't believe we can do any worse than Dubya if we elected Satan himself! The economy is teetering on the edge of collapse. Our reputation around the World is as low as Dubya's approval ratings. And our self-esteem is bruised and battered.

I can only say, Twilight, that I am impressed by Obama because he gives me some hope for change. I know that sounds cliche, but I mean it. A recent poll actually showed that most Americans feel that the Obama/Biden ticket makes them feel "safer." That the helm will be under a more "stable" control. America is TIRED of the fear mongering politics of the Bush era! We want to feel the hope and empowerment that our forefathers did.

I suppose that, if I was well off, lived in a big house, had investments in the MIC, and had the money to send my children to the school of my choice..... like you..... I might feel differently. I understand that, and I don't blame you for the way you see things. But, like the overwhelming majority of the REAL "middle class," I am not in that position.

That is why I want... and REQUIRE change. And I guess that is why I am (so-called) "impressed" by Obama.

Hobo

 

Hobo is back! Hobo is back! Hobo it looks like that one had been building up for a while!

 

If you actually believe that Obama will bring about any legitimate change, then you are a fool. The major differences between McCain and Obama are skin color and age. That's it. They are both liberals, and will both do very little to bring about any legitimate change.

The fact that Obama has sold this bill of goods based on one simple word just shows how good of a salesperson he really is.

 

Yeah, thanks, Bel! I was kinda on a "leash" don't ya know!

Just seemed the board was stumbling a bit to get its feet. Nothing like a bit of political rant to bring it back to life!

Besides, I happened to "notice" that things had swung a bit in the last couple of weeks since these threads were started. The last two weeks of SNL skits have pretty much summed it up!

 

Careful, Rev....

I don't recall actually saying that he WOULD bring about any change. But, it never hurts to HOPE! And, there is no hint or promise of it from the other side.

I agree there may be few differences between what McCain has started (recently) saying about CHANGE, and what Obama says. I would say, they are both "centrists." Some people might not LIKE that, but with the country pretty much equally divided, I don't see the middle of the road as such a bad place to start from.

But, since you brought it up.... let's TALK about skin color and age:

Age brings with it both "perspective" AND intolerance. No tolerance for change, I mean. Like your grandmother and mine! You know what I mean. "Well, in the OLD days, we did THIS or THAT!"

Well.... this is a NEW World! A NEW time! At the very LEAST, I don't want our military policy based on historical or personal references to the Vietnam War.

And, I can't help but say I am excited about the change in skin color! America has always touted itself as a melting pot, yet we have been controlled/governed for over 200 years by older White men! In case you haven't noticed, that is a minority in the World.... and rapidly becoming one in our own country.

I really don't care if Obama wins or loses, in some respects. I am just proud that our country has finally come to the point that it is a possibility.... not a taboo! Even if he loses, America (and the civil rights movement) has WON!

While everyone is caught up in the "glass ceiling" of women in positions of power, a BLACK man.... or at least a MIXED race man.... has made strides that were unthinkable before now!

The Democrats took a big chance here. After losing the last two elections, one might think they would not have been so bold. At the very LEAST, one would think that we Americans would elect a woman before a man of color!** But, it wasn't the decision of the party that made the difference. It was a POPULAR vote amongst us Dems!

That is a committment to principle that the GOP and conservatives can't even DREAM about, let alone understand!

** For the record, I said at the very beginning of this campaign (and my bigoted best friend will confirm,) that America would elect a MAN of ANY color before they would elect a woman! I mean no disrespect to women by this statement, so WildKat can sheath her Canadian claws.... but, this is something I saw coming, and the Primaries proved me right.

But your point, as shared by all conservatives who feel doomed, is that there is no difference between Obama and McCain. I disagree. I am a Maverick of sorts, myself..... but I don't see McCain measuring up to his claims to be one. I don't claim to KNOW what Obama will or CAN do. I just know that he represents a NEW age in American politics and social ideals. And he is supported in MASSIVE numbers by the youth of this country that are our future.

I don't know what the future of the World is, but I know that OUR children will be the ones to deal with it, lead it, and mold it. And, THEY have made their choice in unprecedented numbers.

And they ain't voting for McCain!

Sorry for the long post! You know the old saying about a FOOL and his freedom of speech!

Hobo

 

No, they are clearly both liberals. McCain doesn't stand for barely anything a true conservative stands for. There hasn't been a true conservative in the Presidency in a very long time. There's only been liberals wearing a conservative mask.

The country isn't really equally divided at all. It's just both candidates are so alike, that the true choice is really muddled. There aren't two parties anymore - there is just one party under two names.

History repeats itself. The lessons of the past reflect the future. No matter how much you don't like it. The war in the Middle East has more similarities to the Vietnam War than any other war in history.

I am as much a "black man" as Obama is. He is of Middle Eastern descent. Plain and simple. He simply looks "black" enough for some people to accept him as such.

And the vote of many Republicans who decided that Obama was better competition than Hillary. Personally, I disagree with their decision.

That whole "spirit" garbage again. Let's vote an unqualified person in, just so we can say we did it. Wow. Such conviction.:rolleyes:


Obama represents change as much as the Democrats represented change back in 2006. They got elected to the majority, and changed absolutely nothing. The fact that their last two campaigns have been run on nothing more than a sound byte slogan speaks volumes about where this country has gone.

I know what they say about fools - they drink the Kool Aid and believe the hype.

 

The Rev said:

[More glitches..... my quotes are not here.]

Well, I don't disagree that McCain is more Liberal than Conservative, but I wouldn't call Dubya a Liberal! Fact and truth is..... a TRUE Conservative couldn't come CLOSE to a 50% popular vote in this country. But, that doesn't mean that once he STOLE that vote, he couldn't appoint Conservative Judges to the Supreme Court.

I disagree. I don't think anyone in the last two elections was torn, at the last moment, between a vote for Dubya and a vote for the Democratic ticket. I can understand your position. But, I think you are wrong.

As much as you would LIKE to think you are schooling your elder here, you are not. I believe we all know that history repeats itself and bodes warnings for the future. It is PRECISELEY the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq that has alerted and incensed so many of us who were around to remember and live through that war. How old were YOU?

Wait.... you weren't even BORN yet when it ended, right? And weren't even CLOSE to being on the scene when we all debated whether or not to go? But, you are absolutely RIGHT! The war in Iraq, unlike any war America actually WON, is pretty much JUST like the war in Vietnam! One we said we would NEVER allow again!

Really? Your father is from Africa? I didn't know. Some might consider the northern rim of Africa, countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, as being Middle Eastern, but in general college courses and political analysts do not. Egypt is included mostly because of its proximity to Israel. But, I'll go there. Libya, Algiers, even Morrocco COULD be considered part of the Middle East, but KENYA?? Don't think so! Though many there are of Muslim faith, they are most definitely not Arabs. They are Negroids. Obama's father was a Black man, a Negroid, from Kenya, Africa. Can you compete with that?

Yes, in SOME states it is legal to vote in either primary. And you are right that many Republicans tried to "stack the deck" by voting for a Black man because they figured he'd be easier to beat than a strong woman. Kinda backfired on 'em didn't it? They were counting on the RACE card.... but, like I said.... when it comes down to it, I believe the Bubba's of America will vote for ANY man before they vote for a woman! I don't LIKE it. I don't want to see Obama win for that reason. But, whether Wildkat likes it or not.... America will elect a MAN of any color before they will elect a woman! I HOPE someday in the future things will change, and that will not be the case.

Well.... like I said.... your kind wouldn't understand. But, you have little room to talk considering that McCain passed up 4 very qualified and VETTED choices for Veep just so that he could pick a woman..... and say he DID!

They won a majority in the HOUSE, but they still don't have the votes in the Senate to pass a bill. But, I don't disagree with you that they have been a disappointment! Pelosi's an ASS, and when they decided NOT to impeach Bush, I believe they lost alot of support. Then, without the support in the Senate that they needed, they were unable to override a single veto of Dubya's..... the FIRST he had done in 7 years!

What soundbites would those be? You mean like "stay the course?" The last two elections were stolen.... oh, I mean WON.... by fearmongering by the administration with but ONE soundbite.... "Stay the Course!" Fight them there instead of here!" And, do I need to point out where we have GONE? Or would you prefer to hear it from your broker? :rolleyes:

I quit drinking Koolaid when I was a child like YOU.... and no matter how much older and wiser you THINK you get.... I will STILL be older and wiser. I will STILL have lived through and known more of American history.

Hobo

 

No, not a glitch.

You're kidding, right? The man spends like there is no tomorrow. Sounds pretty liberal to me.

Ah yes - the whole "he stole the election" garbage again. You do realize it is 2008, right? Move beyond the 2000 election, already. Sheesh.:rolleyes:

So you fully admit that history repeats itself, yet you don't want policy based upon that repeating history. Interesting......

So if I am right, then what does my age have to do with the discussion?:rolleyes:

Please enlighten me. What exactly is "my kind"?

Once they are elected, they don't need "support". They need to do the job they were elected to do, and it's quite clear that they haven't. So here we are, in 2008, and you are honestly believing that the same "vote change" that they ran on in 2006 is somehow "truthier" now that it is 2008. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Bush vetoed 11 pieces of legislation after the 2006 election, and one before. 3 of those vetoes have been overridden, all after the 2006 election. So you're wrong, once again.


"Age does not always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone." - Garrison Keillor

 

So, your definition of liberal and conservative is based solely on spending? I'll have to remember that.

What bill did Dubya veto before 2006? I wasn't aware of one. I thought it all started in 06.

Where did I say I didn't want policy based on the knowledge that history repeats itself?

and your "kind?" The kind that doesn't understand MY kind, of course!

So, tell me Rev.... you still impressed by Palin?

 

Hey Rev. You forgot to quote and comment on Kenya.