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Old 04-18-2008, 02:26 AM
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Default A inch is Given, a mile is taken!

Christian photographers fined for refusing same-sex ceremony

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61342

The state of New Mexico has ordered a family owned photography company to pay more than $6,600 for declining a demand to take pictures at a same-sex ceremony, and a lawyer who is working on an appeal says it is an example of how "non-discrimination" or "hate" laws can be weapons in the hands of homosexual activists.

"The Constitution prohibits the state from forcing unwilling people to promote a message they disagree with and thereby violate there conscience," said Jordan Lorence, senior counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund, which is working on an appeal.

"The commission's decision shows stunning disregard for our client's First Amendment rights, and we will appeal…," he said.

The case before the New Mexico Human Rights Commission was brought by Vanessa Willock against Elane Photography LLC, which is run by owners Jon and Elaine Huguenin.

The couple that included Willock approached Elaine Huguenin and wanted the Huguenins to photograph a "commitment ceremony" the women wanted to hold.

"Huguenin declined because her Christian beliefs are in conflict with the message communicated by the ceremony," according to the law firm.

Willock then alleged she was a victim of "discrimination" because of her sexual orientation, and brought the complaint before the state agency.

In its ruling this week, the commission found: "Complainant, Vanessa Willock, proved her discrimination claim based on sexual orientation. The Complainant proved by a preponderance of the evidence that the Respondent, Elane Photography, LLC, discriminated against her because of sexual orientation, in violation of … the New Mexico Human Rights Act."

The Christian couple was ordered to pay Willock $6,637.94.

The ADF, however, said the case will be appealed because of the significance of the constitutional issue at stake.

"The constitutional right of Americans to refrain from participating in a ceremony or other event because their sincerely held religious beliefs conflict with its message is at stake," the organization said. "Christians could be forced to advocate for viewpoints with which they disagree or to participate in events that violate their conscience."

Lorence told OneNewsNow that New Mexico's state law is similar to laws in 19 other states, as well as the proposed federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and if such precedents aren't overturned, they could be used to silence biblical Christianity.

"There is a great threat to our religious liberties and our ability to speak out in favor of traditional marriage when these non-discrimination laws are interpreted in such a harsh way to censor Christians and others," he said.

The AFD noted that the "commitment ceremony" was proposed to be held in Taos, N.M., despite the fact neither marriage nor civil unions are legal for members of the same sex in New Mexico.

"The government cannot make people choose between their faith and their livelihood," said Lorence. "Could the government force a vegetarian videographer to create a commercial for the new butcher shop in town? American business owners do not surrender their constitutional rights at the marketplace gate."

WND reported earlier on a plan that would impose such "non-discrimination" requirements on the nation.

The congressional proposal, H.R. 3685, failed. But the Employment Non-Discrimination Act plan would have given special privileges to "gay" and "transgendered" individuals.

"If passed, the bill would grant special employment rights and protected minority status to individuals who define themselves based upon chosen sexual behaviors," said Matt Barber, a policy analyst with Concerned Women for America, the nation's largest public policy women's group.

"It would force employers to abandon their First Amendment civil rights at the workplace door," he said.

President Bush, before the bill's support fell short in Congress, had suggested it likely would be vetoed because it would have raised "concerns on constitutional and policy grounds."

The White House "policy statement" on the issue said H.R. 3685 would extend employment-discrimination provisions to set up "a comprehensive federal prohibition of employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."

But the White House said the plan was "inconsistent with the right to the free exercise of religion as codified by Congress in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). The Act prohibits the federal government from substantially burdening the free exercise of religion except for compelling reasons, and then only in the least restrictive manner possible.

The White House said the issue involves such "imprecise and subjective terms that would make interpretation, compliance, and enforcement extremely difficult. For instance, the bill establishes liability for acting on 'perceived' sexual orientation, or 'association' with individuals of a particular sexual orientation."

However, various local governments already have approved such regulations, ADF said.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:12 AM
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Why do I have this strange feeling that this "christian" photog works on the Sabbath, wears makeup, and wears clothing made of mixed fabrics... I'll also bet that she has taken photos of illegitimate children and other couples who live in sin without ANY commitment to each other... More BS to gain attention. I do not think they should be sued.. they should just be ashamed of themselves as usual.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:28 AM
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well I side with the photographers- they should have the right to decide who's business to take and who's not to take.. just like any restraunt can refuse to serve whomever they chose( or used to)

When I first started reading this-- I was expecting to find something Legit like- the couple paid a deposit or an advance $$$, booked the job, then on wedding day- too late to find a new photographer-- the photographer "Only then" realized it was a Gay wedding and backed out-- leaving them without professional photos. This I think would have been-- grounds for action.

But to think you have to do business with anyone who walks in to your shop...
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:45 AM
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Uh oh......I agree with headborg on something 100%. Somebody shoot me.

I could see it if the woman walked into the local Piggly Wiggly or Win Dixie or what ever and was refused service at the deli but being involved in a wedding/commitment ceremony etc is something of an intimate situation even for a photographer.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Uturn2001
Uh oh......I agree with headborg on something 100%. Somebody shoot me.

I could see it if the woman walked into the local Piggly Wiggly or Win Dixie or what ever and was refused service at the deli but being involved in a wedding/commitment ceremony etc is something of an intimate situation even for a photographer.

well maybe next time someone wants them to do a "commitment ceremony" warning bells will go off--- and they will politely quote them a upfront, non-refundable $100,000.00 price tag!


Oh but then-- they'll get sued for over-charging?
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:26 AM
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Let's continue to legislate ourselves into oblivion here by dictating whose "rights" are more important.

The photographers have every right to decide where and when they can deliver their services, as well as the right to their personal beliefs. That isn't discrimination, that's business, and a private business has every right to decide which clients they will take. If they were not comfortable photographing a 'commitment ceremony" (which is not LEGALLY recognized in New Mexico) then they were right to decline the job.

And Fozzy if anyone was looking for attention it was the lesbian who sued the photographer, not the photogrpaher who was trying to stay out of a questionable situation. And what, pray tell, do wearing make-up and/or clothing made of mixed fabrics have to do with anything? Which cult are you talking about?


Call me old school, When in doubt...DON'T! I wouldn't have taken the job either!
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
And what, pray tell, do wearing make-up and/or clothing made of mixed fabrics have to do with anything? Which cult are you talking about?
The same cult that incessantly selectively uses their "religion" be tools. The cult that the photographer claims to be a member of. The same section that she uses to pretend to be so devout towards also forbids the things (and many others) that she almost certainly does on a daily basis.. hypocritical? You bet!!!
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:35 PM
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Since most Christians aren't bound to Jewish Law, I still don't see how bringing that into this issue is relevant in any way.

The issue at hand is a business owners right to refuse service, for whatever reason they see fit. Quit trying to turn it into something else.

Hypocritcal??? How about the lesbian seekeing legal redress to assert that her right to not feel discriminated against is more important than the photographers right to not be involved in an ILLEGAL ceremony?

I choose not to associate with drug users, is that discrimination? You bet it is!!! Same sex mariages are not LEGAL so why should anyone be forced by the law to participate in them in any way? Calling it a commitment ceremony is an attempt to subvert the law and no law abiding citizen should be forced to participate in it.
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
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That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and, hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.
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Old 04-18-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
Since most Christians aren't bound to Jewish Law, I still don't see how bringing that into this issue is relevant in any way.
Because it is the standard (tired) excuse almost always given and referred to in these cases?

[quote="RebelDarlin"]The issue at hand is a business owners right to refuse service, for whatever reason they see fit. Quit trying to turn it into something else.

And I stated that I did not believe that the photog should be sued... just that the photog is almost certainly breaking more of these supposed religious rules than the people that they are complaining about as is the norm in these cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
Hypocritcal??? How about the lesbian seekeing legal redress to assert that her right to not feel discriminated against is more important than the photographers right to not be involved in an ILLEGAL ceremony?
Illegal? In what way? To whom? There is no legal ceremony going on here.. but there is blatant hypocrisy, which these supposed religious types so good at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
I choose not to associate with drug users, is that discrimination? You bet it is!!!
I'd love to hear how these people can be compared to drug dealers in any way. The point is that this photog is claiming that they cannot or will not provide a service based on their religious rules when everyone knows that it is pure 100% Bull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
Same sex mariages are not LEGAL so why should anyone be forced by the law to participate in them in any way?
Photogs do not "participate" in anything. They take pictures. If the photog was a professional, they would have taken the gig.. Again, I do not think that this is an offense worth being sued over.. just another blatant case of "do as I say not as I do" hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
Calling it a commitment ceremony is an attempt to subvert the law and no law abiding citizen should be forced to participate in it.
Thats just convoluted nonsense. There is no legal ceremony going on here in the least.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:31 AM
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I think the whole point here is the fact that it is there buisness.. Not any one elses but there's.. They have a right to refuse or accept..

A lot of people talk how religious people push there views on every one. And now we see the oposite. So how many wars will be faught in the name of Homosexuality..

Just a tool for man to use..
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