No I am not delusinal however the companies that hire the ILLEGALS are the ones that are the ones that have created the demand for them to want to come here. I am all for LEGAL immigrantion heck I am only 3rd gen American myself at least on my fathers side. However these companies that hire illegals and then get hit with a 250K fine total that is nothing to how much they save in labor and benefits costs if they did not have that labor pool to exploit. Think about it why hire us at 15 bucks an hour to work in the slaugther house when you can get the illegals to do it for 8 bucks an hour.

[ajritter04]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006

Think about it why hire us at 15 bucks an hour to work in the slaugther house when you can get the illegals to do it for 8 bucks an hour.

Because most americans wouldn't work in a slaughterhouse for that kind of pay. Especially when McDonalds, Wendy's, and other fast food places hire at $7.00 - $8.00 to start. Mexicans provide cheap labor and employers take advantage of that fact. I see it all the time here (Albuquerque, NM). My wife and I stopped off at Taco Bell for lunch yesterday and not one person working there could speak English on an acceptable level and they were all Hispanic. But why do they work there? Because we won't do it for such low wages, except for high school kids, but they're in school during the day.....

I'm not arguing with your rationale, but what you're asking for is totally asinine. You forget who runs this country, it's not the people, it's the corporations. Until that changes, you won't see any substantial backlash from the government against employers who knowingly and willingly hire illegal immigrants.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006

No I am not delusinal however the companies that hire the ILLEGALS are the ones that are the ones that have created the demand for them to want to come here. I am all for LEGAL immigrantion heck I am only 3rd gen American myself at least on my fathers side. However these companies that hire illegals and then get hit with a 250K fine total that is nothing to how much they save in labor and benefits costs if they did not have that labor pool to exploit. Think about it why hire us at 15 bucks an hour to work in the slaugther house when you can get the illegals to do it for 8 bucks an hour.

I agree.. you are delusional...

Think about it people who lead the Charge for the H1B Visa for IT people my brother in law works for State Farm insurance and they refuse to hire any American IT people they would rather bring in Indians at 1/2 the cost on the H1B for 2 years then send them home rather than be forced to keep Americans on the payroll. Were I live now there are 3 options on the phone 1 for English 2 for Spanish and 3 for Hindu. State Farm actually taught my brother in law Hindu so he could became the head of the IT department.

[mccfry]

Not going to happen, they still have a better life living in the shadows here in the USA than they did living in mexico. Mexico is an elitist country that wants nothing to do with their little brown people.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

This is only partially true. There is a drain on the services overall on these illegals BUT to say that they are the main drain on the system is laughable and of course not near the truth. The fact is that more and more AMERICANS are using the emergency services as their primary source of medical care AND they are not paying their bills! We live in an entitlement country where more and more people feel that the "haves" ought to provide for the "have nots" and that this some sort of right to walk away scott free. The majority of those damaging the systems are not the illegals, they are the scapegoats. I'm all for locking down the borders and placing the military there and even for sending the special ops into the border towns to end the problems there. Militarizing the border and installing the walls and surveillance, all of this talk about ridding the country of the illegals already here is just sheer lunacy. Until the flow of illegals and the thirst for recreational drugs by the Americans ceases.. this isn't going to change by blaming the illegals who made the trip.

Fozzy: I am going to address YOU on this topic, not because I like arguing with you, but because I RESPECT you (and your son!) The simple fact is, that YOU seem to be an apologist for the illegal immigration problem we have. I would like to know WHY? I understand that you blame the American who is on welfare equally (if not more,) but WHY would you want to exacerbate the situation by allowing our system to be RAPED by illegals?

Hospitals are reimbursed by the government for services rendered to authorized welfare recipients for their care. Yet the government has no RECORDS/STATISTICS upon which to base assistance for the 20 million illegals that use the services for free. Therefore, hospitals are INDEED suffering financially under this onslaught. As are all other public services.

The "thirst" for illegal drugs IS a problem in this country, but 20 million illegal immigrants did NOT come here to bring me a "buzz!" MOST illegal drugs are carried across the border by LEGALS! The majority of the illegals are here for JOBS! And they pay NO taxes, spend their money in stores that cater to them, and SEEM to have a proportionately higher problem deciding which way the interstate runs when they get DRUNK!

I agree that until we stop the flow of illegals across the border, we are not going to solve the problem, but that does NOT mean that attempting to send some of them home is "lunacy." Just this week, I've heard of more and more states that are starting to enforce the laws (already on the books) against hiring them, renting to them, etc... This WILL and HAS resulted in many of them returning home, or fleeing to states that have yet to enact/enforce the laws. The tide is turning! Americans are fed up!!

If you want to "clean up" the roles of legal welfare recipients in this country, I'll join you. But, let's START with getting the ILLEGALS off the DOLE! At LEAST the legal welfare recipients aren't sending their illgotten gains HOME to another country! They usually spend all they get on toys and such from Walmart, NOT the local "we speak Mexican only" store, where the owners send their profits home to Mexico!

The "Welfare to Work" program WAS making some headway. But, many of these people are not educated enough to get other than manual labor jobs. Where do they work when those jobs are taken by illegals? Many years ago, when I was married to a Mexican-American, one (and ONLY one) of her siblings was on welfare. But, for the MOST part.... legal Americans want to work! But, today..... those jobs are not available if an illegal will do it for LESS money, and NO tax burden to the employer.

And before you blame ALL Americans who are on welfare for their plight.... how about considering how many of them are out of a job due to this Administration's insistence on outsourcing jobs in favor of a "global economy."

We need to take care of our OWN.... in MORE ways than ONE! We have NO business supporting the economy of Mexico, who won't do it for themselves!

Using YOUR logic (that you can't beat City Hall) that would ACCEPT the problem of illegals and move on..... let's just quit spending Billions on the war on Marijuana and MOVE ON! Let's ACCEPT that a certain percentage of our population are chld molesters.... and MOVE ON! And, while we're at it.... let's accept that millions of Americans will drink and drive.... and MOVE ON!

No! There are LAWS in this country against those things. The fact that we seem to be losing the war on them, is no reason to expunge the LAWS! Young people are NOT only serving (and dying) to protect the FREEDOMS in this country, but ALSO the "rule of law." An illegal immigrant MAY be a "person" under the Constitution..... but they are NOT a "Citizen," and they have NO RIGHT to our protection!

THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW!

[Fozzy]

Fozzy: I am going to address YOU on this topic, not because I like arguing with you, but because I RESPECT you (and your son!) The simple fact is, that YOU seem to be an apologist for the illegal immigration problem we have.

Apologist? HARDLY! Realist? Definately

I would like to know WHY? I understand that you blame the American who is on welfare equally (if not more,) but WHY would you want to exacerbate the situation by allowing our system to be RAPED by illegals?

Another oversimplification? The welfare to work program has a huge problem because a lot of the people the continually pay to go through training WILL NOT WORK ANY JOB! Most can not qualify to work most jobs due to their criminal, background or work histories. I can not tell you the number of wannbe truckers who are in schools all over the country and WILL NEVER QUALIFY to be hired by anyone! The system provides welfare as long as these people are in some sort of training! It's a snowjob! It's also more expensive! Rather than just pay these lowlifes to sit at home and drink beer all day, we are paying them to go through schooling for jobs they cannot qualify for.. really great plan!

Two reasons.. one its all about sheer numbers and the "strawman". There are staggeringly more American leeches than illegal Mexican ones.. to complain about one as if it is they who are the cause of the problem is illogical and of course "convenient".

Hospitals are reimbursed by the government for services rendered to authorized welfare recipients for their care.

At what rate? To say that the medical system is not getting hosed by these leeches is laughable.. but as long as the government, the medical system and of course the ignorant masses can blame the Mexicans for the problem.. its a win win win for them..

Yet the government has no RECORDS/STATISTICS upon which to base assistance for the 20 million illegals that use the services for free. Therefore, hospitals are INDEED suffering financially under this onslaught. As are all other public services.

This is the same government which "loses" records and a record pace on everything from veterans to foster kids? That government? The same government who some people including yourself has pulled off 9/11 for some reason?

The "thirst" for illegal drugs IS a problem in this country, but 20 million illegal immigrants did NOT come here to bring me a "buzz!" MOST illegal drugs are carried across the border by LEGALS! The majority of the illegals are here for JOBS!

BUT they sure get blamed for it.. and of course the ignorant American just laps it up like feed out of the trough.. because.. they are Mexicans and of course they see nothing wrong with recreational drugs,,, just the system that provides it to them.

And they pay NO taxes, spend their money in stores that cater to them, and SEEM to have a proportionately higher problem deciding which way the interstate runs when they get DRUNK!

Many more who have and are working jobs under false paperwork are putting money into a system that they cannot get the money back from. And of course the drunk driving thing is another issue that you show complete ignorance or bigotry in.. To say that illegal aliens are a group that drive drunk or drive drunk the wrong way on the interstates is telling.. not to me of course. It's more the convenient whipping boy, strawman approach to a problem that the ignorant masses can oversimplify.

I agree that until we stop the flow of illegals across the border, we are not going to solve the problem, but that does NOT mean that attempting to send some of them home is "lunacy."

I never said that attempting to send some of them home was lunacy. The ignorant oversimple "lets deport 20 million people" issue is lunacy. There is no way in the REAL WORLD that 20 million people can be rounded up, charged, processed and then deported. And the costs of doing even a couple of million would make the money that people are complaining about being spent on the illegals a joke in comparison.

Just this week, I've heard of more and more states that are starting to enforce the laws (already on the books) against hiring them, renting to them, etc... This WILL and HAS resulted in many of them returning home, or fleeing to states that have yet to enact/enforce the laws. The tide is turning! Americans are fed up!!

and Oklahoma is the most recent to pass such laws. I have no problem with programs that find, catch, detain, process and then ship illegals home. The problem again is this incessant whining about the illegals being a drain to an entitlement system that is already clogged with shirkers and leeches. We are a fair people (or were), that used to pride itself on helping those who cannot help themselves. Would I rather see a mexican who is a hard worker just trying to survive who was injured be helped over some professional welfare puke here who simply refuses to work? You betcha! Does this make me some kind of bad guy to some backwards redneck? I really do not care.

If you want to "clean up" the roles of legal welfare recipients in this country, I'll join you. But, let's START with getting the ILLEGALS off the DOLE! At LEAST the legal welfare recipients aren't sending their illgotten gains HOME to another country! They usually spend all they get on toys and such from Walmart, NOT the local "we speak Mexican only" store, where the owners send their profits home to Mexico!

Thats laughable! The illegals here on welfare and not sending their money anywhere! The workers who are working their butts off ARE sending their money home to their families and It seems to me that it is more honest a living that some shlub here who is sitting in his section 8 housing, not saving a dime, playing his video games all day. The reason that most of the illegals are here is because they are providing for their families that they could not do at home. And I challenge anyone here to say that if they faced the same situation, they would not be in the next country over doing the same.

The "Welfare to Work" program WAS making some headway. But, many of these people are not educated enough to get other than manual labor jobs.

Where do they work when those jobs are taken by illegals? Many years ago, when I was married to a Mexican-American, one (and ONLY one) of her siblings was on welfare. But, for the MOST part.... legal Americans want to work! But, today..... those jobs are not available if an illegal will do it for LESS money, and NO tax burden to the employer.

HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!! For the most part these people want a new Jag, the CEO position and of course the salary.. they can't get out of bed before 10 or 11 am... but they "want".. and that doesn't change into any real sense of desire to change their ways. So they continue to dream about these jobs and of course complain about the mexicans who are "keeping them from it".

And before you blame ALL Americans who are on welfare for their plight.... how about considering how many of them are out of a job due to this Administration's insistence on outsourcing jobs in favor of a "global economy."

LOL!!! Of course you'd sneak in a little Bush Bashing! LOL Of course the illegal immigration problem and outsourcing started in the year 2000? Did I mention the strawman?

We need to take care of our OWN.... in MORE ways than ONE! We have NO business supporting the economy of Mexico, who won't do it for themselves!

"We" arent.. the people who are working these hard jobs are sending their money home..

Using YOUR logic (that you can't beat City Hall) that would ACCEPT the problem of illegals and move on..... let's just quit spending Billions on the war on Marijuana and MOVE ON! Let's ACCEPT that a certain percentage of our population are chld molesters.... and MOVE ON! And, while we're at it.... let's accept that millions of Americans will drink and drive.... and MOVE ON!

ahhh More strawman/convenience.

No! There are LAWS in this country against those things. The fact that we seem to be losing the war on them, is no reason to expunge the LAWS! Young people are NOT only serving (and dying) to protect the FREEDOMS in this country, but ALSO the "rule of law." An illegal immigrant MAY be a "person" under the Constitution..... but they are NOT a "Citizen," and they have NO RIGHT to our protection!

As much as you hate it, the illegals have just as much legal protection under the system as you do. How do you charge someone with even BEING an illegal without due process? Are you saying that all of this gets tossed and whoever the government "deems" illegal gets tossed in a bus and sent across the border? Say they come and get you for marrying a latino? You've been sleeping with the enemy and of course are now guilty of providing aid and comfort to the "enemy"... This is silly, but no sillier than dragging drunk driving, child molesters and of George Bush into the discussion. Say someone charges YOU with being an illegal.. should you get due process that the Constitution says.. or should you lose your rights automatically?

THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW!

No sh*t! There also a couple of hundred more who have crossed the open border while I typed all of this.. what do YOU think the first step is?

[GMAN]

This country would be much better off if we eliminated welfare. There are some illegals who come to this country simply for the freebie's. There are also millions of American citizens who won't work due to the government checks. This country was built by sweat not a government handout. There are few people who are unable to work at some job. It may not pay them $50,000/year, but it is honest work. We used to start at the bottom and either learn a trade or go to college to elevate ourselves economically. If we got people off of welfare, we would need much less government. Most people don't realize it but the majority of our government money goes for social services. If we eliminated welfare and social services we would not only need less government but less taxes. The reason we pay such high taxes is to support an out of control government. If we reduced the size of government and eliminate welfare we would not need so much tax revenue. With less government to support and more people paying taxes we could reduce the tax bite everyone pays. That would raise our potential standard of living. We currently pay more than 1/2 of our income to various taxes. If we make $50,000 then we are actually making less than $25,000 after all taxes are paid. The government is supposed to work for the people. Today we all seem to work to support the government.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by mccfry

Not going to happen, they still have a better life living in the shadows here in the USA than they did living in mexico. Mexico is an elitist country that wants nothing to do with their little brown people.

Living in the shadows? What are you talking about? I am surrounded by these people on a daily basis. They are everywhere I go, and everywhere I look... Stop regurgitating the silly leftist sound bites.

In the shadows... don't make me laugh!

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by TCT

They are everywhere I go, and everywhere I look... Stop regurgitating the silly leftist sound bites.

In the shadows... don't make me laugh!

"They"? Who is they..and how do you know they are illegals? Do they have some special markings? Or is it that they speak spanish and have dark skin. There is no way that anyone can tell if someone is illegal by LOOKING AT THEM. If you see illegals everywhere, then it is YOU that have the problem. I do not know about the leftist sound bite, but you just stumbled all over some skinhead rhetoric.