Karl Rove smiling...
#61
10-25-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Fozzy
Paper ballots and electronic ballots are not perfect and neither is infallible, the fact is that every system is up for corruption and there is no system that is immune to it.
You are right, Fozzy! [although, I caught your "edit."] Neither IS infallible. But, PAPER trail ballots can be "verified" if needed. The problem is in the Abuse of Power! BOTH sides have been proved to be corrupt or have tried to pad their chances on various levels. The problem here is that the minority party is hedging their bets and starting to complain early so when and if they lose (regardless of the reason) that someone has "ripped them off". Be very careful. In THIS case, according to the polls, YOU are the minority "party." My problem is, that after YOUR party steals another election they couldn't win by popular vote, we'll have NO way to contest it. My point is, that we are on a slippery slope with these electronic voting machines. EITHER party MIGHT control them. But, it is YOUR party that passed the law mandating them, and it is Cheney who is connected to the companies that make them. Can you show me where any Dem has any stock in these companies?? It's like dealing with children anymore. Having to explain to adults all the time that sometime no matter what you wish for, it may not come true and sometimes, you lose! Tell it to Bush, when he LOSES this war! :roll: As for the Right to Vote in this country, guaranteed by the Constitution, your "laissez faire" attitude just isn't good enough.
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#62
10-25-2006, 02:50 PM
We do not elect based on popular vote and never have.
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#63
10-25-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Fozzy
We do not elect based on popular vote and never have.
Don't GET me started! :lol: I talked about this on another thread about a year ago. I HATE the electoral college process! Not only is it corrupt, it is not 'representative!' In today's age of IP addresses, and immediate response to posts just like these, we don't have to travel 150 miles by ox wagon anymore to deliver our vote. So, we SURE don't need someone to vote FOR us based on a so-called majority of the popular vote. This is, or SHOULD be a Democracy, not a Republic. EVERY vote, in the popular election, should count. But.... that's another topic! :lol:
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#64
10-25-2006, 03:13 PM
Nope! We defineately should NOT be a democracy! Representative republics save us from allowing a simple majority from turning this into a Taliban type country.
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#65
10-25-2006, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by golfhobo
It just happens that in THIS case, it decided the election in favor of the candidate that LOST the popular vote.
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#67
10-25-2006, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Fozzy
I follow him... :P
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#68
10-26-2006, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by golfhobo
I HATE the electoral college process! Not only is it corrupt, it is not 'representative!'
In today's age of IP addresses, and immediate response to posts just like these, we don't have to travel 150 miles by ox wagon anymore to deliver our vote. So, we SURE don't need someone to vote FOR us based on a so-called majority of the popular vote. This is, or SHOULD be a Democracy, not a Republic. EVERY vote, in the popular election, should count.
If it weren't for the electoral college, the election would be decided by a few large cities. How's that for "disenfranchisement"?
But.... that's another topic! :lol:
Thank you, founding fathers, for your wisdom and insight, so that our elected officials are actually elected by the COUNTRY, rather than a few cities.
#69
11-05-2006, 01:34 AM
I hope everyone has watched, or will watch the HBO documentary titled "Hacking Democracy." It started Thurs night. It is on again this morning.
Diebold, of course, sued to keep it off the air, but lost out.
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#70
11-05-2006, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by golfhobo
I HATE the electoral college process! Not only is it corrupt, it is not 'representative!'
Well.... that in itself DOES prove my point, however, I'm "suspending" for now my contention that the process IS necessarily corrupt (by intention) although, I believe the "process" can and is still "corrupted" by design. i.e. the fact that several states split their electoral votes while others are winner takes all, tends to "change, modify or corrupt" the overall process and therefore the results.
In today's age of IP addresses, and immediate response to posts just like these, we don't have to travel 150 miles by ox wagon anymore to deliver our vote. So, we SURE don't need someone to vote FOR us based on a so-called majority of the popular vote. This is, or SHOULD be a Democracy, not a Republic. EVERY vote, in the popular election, should count.
If it weren't for the electoral college, the election would be decided by a few large cities. How's that for "disenfranchisement"? I don't believe that is the "precise" reason stated in the Federalist Papers, although it is a close and often used interpretation of the original intent. I don't see how the election could be decided by only a few large cities under the CURRENT availability of voting opportunities as was stated in my last 'quote.'
But.... that's another topic! :lol:
Thank you, founding fathers, for your wisdom and insight, so that our elected officials are actually elected by the COUNTRY, rather than a few cities. No, that is NEITHER the topic of this thread, NOR the basis of my beef with Bush. I have admitted long before now, that I have a dislike for the Electoral College process. I have researched it quite a bit, but often have been "referred" to the Federalist Papers for more background info. I have long wanted to read them fully, but it IS quite a bit of reading. Thanks to YOUR challenge, I am now getting more involved in that project. Thank you. I have allready found several sections that seem to support my position.... although I've ALSO found some that would seem to support YOURS. When I've gathered my research into a more usable form, I will start a thread, and THEN you can tear my position apart if you wish. However, the topic of THIS thread was "WHY is Karl Rove smiling?" And I believe I've been consistent in my contention that the process of voting without a verifiable paper trail, CAN and HAS been corrupted, and that "IF" Rove has a hand in it, then he would be smiling because he already KNOWS what the outcome of the election will be! YOU don't like it when people put words in YOUR mouth, or assume a different meaning to YOUR posts. I would appreciate you not assuming to know MY intentions as well.
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