Christocrats trying to sneak their BS into schools here.
#21
10-19-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Sheepdancer
"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ." - George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779.
MAN....if that isnt enough to make a liberals skin crawl, I dont know what is. Just think about it...George Washington telling Indians that all kids should be taught Christianity in schools. George Washington was neither a signatory of the Declaration of Independance NOR an author of the Constitution (yes I know he was the president of the Continental Congress, and a signatory, but not one of the actual authors - more like Hastert presides over the House, but rarely has time to author a bill.) Those comments, to the Indians, were made 10 years before the Constitution was written. I guess that qualifies him as part of the Puritan Era I mentioned. "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible." - George Washington Wow...he used the word "impossible". I would think he was strongly opinionated about it. Ibid. (It also must help to be fornicating with your slaves, as he was.) "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams Damn those pesky Founding fathers....mixing religion with the Constitution! John Adams WAS a signatory to the Declaration, but not an author of the Constitution. At the time of his Administration, there was no Public Schools Act. Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto with the United States in mind. He said it could NEVER work in a backwards country like Russia. People CAN be wrong. "The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity." - John Adams This proves my last point. It is totally wrong. Christianity is not mentioned in the Declaration of Independance, and the whole basis of it was POLITICAL freedom and self governance. These few quotes only took a few minutes of my time. If i wasnt at work and had more time, I could find 100s of others. Remember the words "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" are no where in the Constitution. Not those specific words, no. But, that has become a very literal interpretation of the clause in the 1st Ammendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or phohibiting the free exercise thereof." The latter clause means freedom OF religion (on a personal level) and the first clause means freedom FROM religion (as in the control the Church of England had over the citizenry and the courts.) In total, it means Congress will make laws WITHOUT repect to religious teachings so as to "separate" the Church's influence from the State's business. I realize that concept is difficult for Conservatives and Moral Majoritists to comprehend.... but it is the LAW. Our founding fathers were very much 'PRO CHRISTIAN MORALITY" in our Gov. I don't debate that our founding fathers were very religious. But, I think even THEY knew, and "constituted" the difference between Christian morals and Christian Authority. But what the Founding fathers did agree on is that you have the RIGHT to disagree with them. What you libs will never be able to do is change history. What they agreed on was that I have the RIGHT to equal governance, without respect to religious beliefs and practices. THAT part of history has stood unchanged for 200 years. It has only been within the last 30 years or so that the Conservatives have tried to "legislate" morality between a woman's legs, two citizens' beds, and children's minds.
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#22
10-19-2006, 09:32 AM
*quote* I don't debate that our founding fathers were very religious
They were Christians. ***PATRICK HENRY*** ?It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.? [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
#23
10-19-2006, 09:49 AM
No religion iin Govt. or Schools!
Yes, there IS too much religious proselytizing in our schools and everywhere in Public life. As a secularists I consider religion rather ridiculous and the people who follow it pathetic.
However, I also consider it none of my business what moronic, bizarre belief you feel you need in order to control your conduct. Just keep it to YOURSELF! I mean it's embarrassing enough that you admit to believing in some fantasy AND YOUR AN ADULT, but to advertise it in public, Huge Crosses on the highway, Jewish caps, etc... I mean come'on, that's like walking around with your zipper down! Everyone knows Tinker Bell is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Tinker Bell said it, I believe it! Jeeeez...., wake up people, snap outta it!
#24
10-19-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally Posted by dpatt
*quote* I don't debate that our founding fathers were very religious
They were Christians. ***PATRICK HENRY*** ?It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.? [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses] Good point, dpatt. See... I started to answer that statement differently. Although, I stand by my statement that Christianity - as a religion - was not a basis for the Declaration of Independance, the "principles" of Christianity do apply. And they are that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (therefore respecting their personal beliefs.) That we don't judge others. That we welcome all people as part of God's creation. That we practice tolerance. That we render unto Caesar that which is HIS, and to God that which He requires. (Separation of Church and State!) I agree that part of being a Christian is to follow the commandment to go into all nations and spread the Gospel. But, I believe that should be done through Churches or personal witness. NOT sword wielding Crusades, and NOT in my government or my public schools. It also means that religious conviction, and adherence thereto, is between a man and his God. It is NOT something that should be imposed on us as was done by the Church of England or the ancient Jewish Law. Patrick Henry was most definitely saying that this country was founded NOT on religion (and its laws) but on the Gospel which was about a personal decision, and NEVER was used to persecute, rule, or constrain the personal freedoms of God's creation. He was advocating ASYLUM from religious domination and dogma. Which is why our Constitution says that there should be NO law that RESPECTS a certain religion, nor PROHIBITS free exercise by the people of ANY or NONE. Thanks for jumping in! 
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#25
10-19-2006, 10:28 AM
Just watching. 8)
Keep it civil. :shock: That is all. :wink: Carry on. :arrow:
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#26
10-19-2006, 11:15 AM
Re: No religion iin Govt. or Schools!
Originally Posted by OK
Yes, there IS too much religious proselytizing in our schools and everywhere in Public life. As a secularists I consider religion rather ridiculous and the people who follow it pathetic.
This is a very narrow minded view of people. Millions of the brightest and most important people in History have been religious. I doubt that THEIR lives, compared to yours, would be considered pathetic. And don't forget how many of those pathetic people died to give you the freedom you enjoy to BE a secularist in THIS country. However, I also consider it none of my business what moronic, bizarre belief you feel you need in order to control your conduct. I think that statistics would show that more crime and debauchery are committed by people who don't have a religious belief to guide them and "control their conduct." Just keep it to YOURSELF! Sorry, but the Constitution says I don't HAVE to! What is it about religious expression that so threatens you? I mean it's embarrassing enough that you admit to believing in some fantasy AND YOUR AN ADULT, but to advertise it in public, Huge Crosses on the highway, Jewish caps, etc... I mean come'on, that's like walking around with your zipper down! Sounds like YOU are the one that's embarrassed. (that WAS civil, compared to what I deleted! :lol: ) Everyone knows Tinker Bell is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Tinker Bell said it, I believe it! Jeeeez...., wake up people, snap outta it! I find it interesting that Christians have only love and concern in their hearts for the lost (secularists,) but YOU have been unable to show anything but hatred and contempt for your fellow citizens who don't believe as you do. Has a Christian ridiculed YOU lately? I doubt it. Hmmm... Wonder who has more control over their "conduct?" I'm not trying to stifle your opinion or comment, OK. But, your "bedside manners" are indicative of the lack of religious upbringing that you must surely have experienced. I wouldn't call it pathetic.... but I might use the word pitiful. I believe it is possible to debate opposing concepts without being condescending. Not always easy. But, I'm sure you can handle it with your superior intellect and enlightenment. :wink:
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#27
10-19-2006, 12:05 PM
You really have a problem with religion.
Really? Wonder why that would be? Just for a second lets say religion is fake for your sake, with all that religion teaches, morals, love for one another and so on what would be wrong living ones life like this. HAHAHA!!!! Which religion would this be? It sure isnt ANY of the mainstream religions that has caused practically every problem that the world faces today. I remember when my youngest daughter was in grade school they had religious education class in her public school and people who wanted this class were allowed to and the ones that didn't want to were not forced to participate. Grade school is for the basics of education (the three "R"s) and religion is not one of them. I can say this there were fewer kids who didn't go and more that wanted to attend. It's called peer pressure... you know, like the whole basis of modern religions. They do not want to be seen as different from their peers. You could compare the same thing to many classes. I don't like the idea that these rights are being snuffed out like people like you. It's only a wish that you personally can snuff people like me out. It is however nothing new to your so called "love and morals" of your supposed religion. We have rights just like you. Such as? Not everyone can afford private christian schools so offering something in schools like this should be a right that you can not take away from us. If you are trying to impress me by babbling on about being able to afford to send your kids to a "special" school, don't even bother. I don't believe any public school forces religion in school so If you want to deprive your daughter from every teaching you don't agree with then you are forcing her to have the narrow minded attitude you have. HA-HA-HA!!!! My daughter is more well rounded than any pointy head who hides from reality in some private school. Education is the key then everyone from there adapts their own decision. and by removing REAL science and REAL history it does what? They see more on TV and you probably don't monitor her there. Yeah, I do as a matter of fact... When are you going to start talking about people's mamas? I do not wish to argue further with you, have a nice day. Fat chance... You'll be back, but only when you think that someone (like a moderator) has your back.
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#28
10-19-2006, 12:07 PM
And for the record... the John Adams that the little "c" types love to quote was the SON of the John Adams who was a founding father. (my wife is related to them)
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#29
10-19-2006, 12:17 PM
Can I Play??
Ok here is my take--I agree with -- To be continued--!!! Fozzy and GolfHobo on this one, They should be teaching it all including abstenance, and GolfHobo said it just as I would have on what the teachers should be who teach certain things! Slimland
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#30
10-20-2006, 10:39 AM
I too am tired of all this "Religion in your face"! Keep it in your church or home, I don;t want to have to hear it. Also, try seeing a psychiatrist?
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