[Snowman7]

Originally Posted by TimberWolf

Hey Snowman, 7 years later I have looked backed and wondered what if I had stayed with UPS Freight? Where would I be now ? I got that answer about two months ago, I was pulling a load of fuel to Waste Pro in Daytona and ran into a former co worker with UPS Freight, in fact he and I went through orientation together and started the same day, however he did have some P&D experience so he started driving right away while I went to the docks and filled in. We all know how that worked out for me screwing up my back, an operation and 4 months of down time before the good ole Teamsters came in and ruined my chances of driving anytime soon even further. That was Feb to April of 2008, Made the jump to fuel in May of 08 and spent two years with Florida Rock before jumping to Mansfield Oil. Coming up on my 5 year anniversary with Mansfield and have every intention to retire with them.
When I saw this guy at Waste Pro he remembered me right away, we got to talking and he assured me that I made the right move, in the last four years I have yet to see under 75K with this year and last year topping out at just over 82k the only thing I don't have is the built in retirement plan that helps fund the Teamsters, or the cheap insurance which I do have to say was good. He told me he is coming in at just over 68K a year. I guess it boils down to what works for the individual, myself I enjoy working 10 to 12 hours with only 4 or 5 stops as opposed to bumping 15 to 20 docks. I have the weekends off and as senior driver I choose if I want to work holidays or not. Last Christmas I worked pulled two loads made just over $600 for the day (double load pay for the holiday). This year I am at home. Here in Orlando the new UPS Freight guys are still driving those old Overnight Volvo's and they are lucky if they have AC.. Sadly he had nothing good to say about the Teamsters, with Florida being a right to work state they are pretty much powerless.. In the end all that matters is how the individual feels about their job , as there are days in my job I just want to yell.
Merry Christmas to you..
Timberwolf

I know it didn't work out for you. Not sure what you mean by "built in retirement plan that helps fund the Teamsters". Our pension is company funded and controlled. The teamsters have nothing to do with it. It's good though you found something that works for you. Your old terminal sounds like the exception to the rule. Anyone I know with 7-8 years is doing fine. I should point out that I'm a road driver. A city driver would never make as much money and the older trucks get run in the city while the newer trucks are used for road work. I also wouldn't be happy as a city driver bumping docks. I never even see a customer. But even though I think its a great job our company is full of whiners who either blame the company or the union, depending on the day. I'd like to see them try to find another job even half as good. We have 20 year cry babies on a gravy run making 100k. I just block it out. I do my thing and go home. The union is a nice safety net but I don't need them. I'm there to work, that's what I get paid for. I guess everyone looks for different things in their ideal job. Some want a nice truck, or more freedom, control over where they go, home time, I don't know. I want a good pay plan and benefits. I can't always get my choice of days off or vacation, can't get the run I want, not crazy about working nights but it's OK. I like it but apparantly a lot of people don't. I work (if you want to call it that) 9-10 hours a day and I think its pretty easy for what I make.No way I could live in a truck, run 70 hours, and make 50k. I could consider fuel, but I don't want to work weekends, even as a new guy. We all have to find a happy medium. And Merry Christmas to you too!

[golfhobo]

Well.... I have been with FedEx for the last 6 years and make about $55-65k a year. I figure I can pay my own insurance with that if I need to... but, I have the V.A. Not married so don't need an insurance "plan." I have "hit a dock" about 10 times in 6 years... surprised I still know how to DO it! lol. (Did one this last weekend for the fun of it.)

As a team driver, I usually only drive about 9-10 hours per "shift" before going in the sleeper. Usually, less than 50 hours/wk before getting home for the "weekend" (2 days off?)

Don't have to drive a "tow motor." That's a UPS "union" thing. Don't fingerprint. Don't have to deal with "shippers."

I like... and usually have... pretty good equipment. Getting a brand new truck next week.

Wouldn't DO a "local" job if it means more than 12 hours total (including commute) per day. I need more than "10" off duty if I'm gonna go home!

But, this is stage 2 in my 4 stage plan. Next step is (possibly) a private carrier... solo... with good equipment, pay and bennies. Step 4 is buying my own truck and leasing on to Landstar or someone better so that I can control where I go and when.

Step 5 is retirement, possibly still owning my own truck so I can work one week a month to supplement my social security. But... I can DO that whether I own a truck or not!

I'm currently "teaming" with my brother. lol. It's quite an experience. HE is gonna retire at the end of this next year, so... I'm looking for someone I can "live" with in a truck 5 out of 7 days a week!

I LOVE going to the West coast and back (or something that will get me the same miles) and getting home most weekends! I don't NEED to be home weeknights.

I sometimes have thought about car hauling... but, reading this thread has disabused me of that dream. Same goes for fuel hauling. And I wouldn't wear BROWN shorts for nothing! At least FedEx has better looking uniforms! lol.

I'd LIKE to make $80-100k (as SOME here "claim" to make,) but... I don't think I want to work that hard. Was watching a show tonight where a college grad was exited about a new job paying $45k. I guess that tells me that I am doing better than the "average bear." lol.

I guess, if I lived in the Northeast, or ND... I'd do some other kind of work. lol. I guess I just got lucky. I live in the South, and mostly manage to avoid snow! Chained up once before I came to FedEx... and haven't since. And WON'T.

Oh, and did I mention that I won't wear a BROWN uniform? I HATE brown! lol.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Snowman7]

Hobo, Hobo, Hobo...first of all. a tow motor is not a UPS union thing. It's a "freight" thing. As in UPS Freight, or Fedex Freight, Conway Freight, Old Dominion Freight Lines. We all use them. I don't work for small package or as you call it ground. I don't know anything about them but I hear they use conveyor belts.
Second when you use the word claim in quotation marks I assume that to mean you don't believe we make that much. I assure you we do. And your "brothers" so to speak at Fedex FREIGHT do also. They are company employees and they make way more money then you do working for an independent contractor in GROUND. But I'll assume you already know that. But yes you're uniforms are definitely better looking then mine lol. And you probably drive a nicer truck, although I drive a 3 year old Volvo day cab I've had since new. But I'd rather get paid a lot more money to wear brown shorts then spend my life in a sleeper. After all, you can't play a round of golf from a sleeper, or grill a steak, take a shower, ride your motorcycle, go to a baseball game, or make love to your wife/significant other from a sleeper lol. I think its somewhat telling when you say "I don't want to work that hard". That's perfectly fine with me. A little baffling maybe but it sums up what the OP is asking. What's important to you? I guess when we find it hard to fill openings that just reinforces our importance to the company and helps to justify our high wages. I have come to realize truck drivers in general are a rare breed. Strong willed, independent, don't like to be told what to do, adventurous. They either can't or won't do a regular job. They have to be free, roaming around with chrome rims and free flowing exhaust. But just think for a second, our pay scale is .67/mi while driving and $27/hr for all non driving duties, plug those numbers in your day and figure out how much you'd make. Wearing brown shorts and running a tow motor a couple hours a night might not be all that bad. And we (FREIGHT) hire right off the street. You don't have to work part time dock for years, then 15 years in the city, before you get to tractor trailer, as in UPS GROUND. I try to spread the word, people just don't care to listen. As we've already said, different strokes for different folks. Carry on drivers!

[solo379]

I guess it's sum's up what i've always thought. Most folks looking for the "easy", few for a "better"... Of course it's all not pure, rather some kind of "breed". When you are getting older, your position could change, 20+ years ago, i did a lot of "fingerprinting", wouldn't want it now.....

[golfhobo]

Snowman said:

Hobo, Hobo, Hobo...first of all. a tow motor is not a UPS union thing. It's a "freight" thing. As in UPS Freight, or Fedex Freight, Conway Freight, Old Dominion Freight Lines. We all use them. I don't work for small package or as you call it ground. I don't know anything about them but I hear they use conveyor belts.

Ah... thanks for clearing that up. I DO keep forgetting that you work for freight. I just don't want to drive a tow motor. Not that it is all that hard.... Just think it should be some other guy's job. Just Like I don't run the conveyors or pack the "free" boxes in our trailers. When I used to deliver "pallets" of beer and backhaul pallets of produce... I didn't load or unload my trucks. If I DID, I probably wouldn't get paid much (if any) for it... so.... don't want to do it. lol.

Second when you use the word claim in quotation marks I assume that to mean you don't believe we make that much. I assure you we do. And your "brothers" so to speak at Fedex FREIGHT do also. They are company employees and they make way more money then you do working for an independent contractor in GROUND. But I'll assume you already know that.

Sorry for the "misconception." I DO believe you make what you say (and Timberwolf as well...) I was referring to some way back threads where the claims got a bit out of hand.

But yes you're uniforms are definitely better looking then mine lol.

I HATE wearing ANY uniform, but brown is just my least favorite color EVER! I used to work for Philip Morris and had to wear that color. Yuck! lol. [I also drove towmotors and forklifts there.] Blue and purple mixed with black works well for me. Matches my eyes! lol. Seriously.... I still suffer from depression, and wearing ANY uniform, but especially brown... adds to that depression. It is just something I would HAVE to consider for my wellbeing.

And you probably drive a nicer truck, although I drive a 3 year old Volvo day cab I've had since new.

Oh, I have driven some real DOGS! But, mostly... I DO get decent trucks. But, I have seen some very nice sleeper units pulling UPS freight across the country. Have never really driven a daycab... but, think I would get claustrophobic. I really don't even like single bench pickups.

But I'd rather get paid a lot more money to wear brown shorts then spend my life in a sleeper. After all, you can't play a round of golf from a sleeper, or grill a steak, take a shower, ride your motorcycle, go to a baseball game, or make love to your wife/significant other from a sleeper lol.

Actually... you CAN do most of those things. Surely you realize truckstops have showers... and they are nicer and cleaner than what I have at home! Haha. I once saw a guy parked his whole rig in a campround area down by a stream. He had a little grill out beside his truck and I'm sure he was pan frying trout (freshly caught) or grilling a steak. A round of golf or a baseball game are just a cab ride (or rental car) away when you are laid over for a day somewhere. I don't believe I have done either yet, but mostly due to not having a like minded co-driver (until now.) I HAVE (on the other hand,) taken the train up to the south rim of the Grand Canyon, bobtailed to Mt. Rushmore, and spent several days on various beaches. My first company had a husband/wife team who strapped bicycles on their truck and spent a day riding up and down the Oregon coast most weeks while on their "standard" layover in Portland. My brother also used to team with his wife, and they would take "rest breaks" whenever they wanted.

I think its somewhat telling when you say "I don't want to work that hard". That's perfectly fine with me. A little baffling maybe but it sums up what the OP is asking. What's important to you?

And, you'll note that my post (unlike this one where I quote and respond,) was just a free-standing "post" I made on the subject. So, I was just responding to the O.P. I had no intention for it to sound like a "debate" with you. Cool?

But... I really DON'T want to work all that hard. I think you are younger than me. I'm 58 now. I'm not a very "large or stocky" person. AND.... I have a bad back. I even have trouble with some of our heavier dollies (without my team-mate.) Usually, not a problem but... many of our yards are sloped toward the trailers against the edge, and dragging that dolly up to the back of the front trailer can strain my hernia (forgot to mention that.) I'm only about 5' 10" and the wheels put the center of gravity up about my chest in some cases. Almost all of the "pull" has to be done by my arms in a sideways motion... kinda like raking leaves (which kills my back.)

I passed on skateboarding for some of the same reasons, and as much as I'd like to try heavy hauling... I'm not sure I could handle some of the heavier chains, etc. So... I'll take my better than average pay (not as good as yours,) and enjoy seeing the country instead of the four walls of my "empty" apartment... as I am doing now. I like to get home weekly... but, I don't really want to spend my life here every night... by myself.

I have come to realize truck drivers in general are a rare breed. Strong willed, independent, don't like to be told what to do, adventurous. They either can't or won't do a regular job. They have to be free, roaming around with chrome rims and free flowing exhaust.

I do enjoy the nice looks of some spec'd out trucks with chrome, etc... but... that's not really where my head is. The rest of it sums me up pretty well, though. Since I've lived all over the country, and traveled it since birth... it is in my blood to "roam" this beautiful and "varied" terrain. Driving 5-600 miles a day... and never getting out of my backyard... just makes me feel like I'm "missing" out on life. I think of some poor soul, born and raised... and destined to die... in some little corner of this great World, and I wonder "why? What for?"

But just think for a second, our pay scale is .67/mi while driving and $27/hr for all non driving duties, plug those numbers in your day and figure out how much you'd make. Wearing brown shorts and running a tow motor a couple hours a night might not be all that bad.

Can't argue with you there... and it IS tempting.

And we (FREIGHT) hire right off the street. You don't have to work part time dock for years, then 15 years in the city, before you get to tractor trailer, as in UPS GROUND.

Well... I didn't really KNOW that. Thanks for the info. Guess I've just always thought of UPS as what I had heard about them... and that must have been UPS Ground! I'm a truck driver... not a dockworker. Just couldn't see having to pay THOSE kind of "dues" to be a driver. So, tell me.... with 9 years experience (6 with FedEx)... would I have to start at the bottom and make $35k/yr as a "newbie?"

[Mackman]

Originally Posted by solo379

Most folks looking for the "easy", few for a "better"...

Try owning septic trucks. Its a struggle to try to find anyone. It is hard labor. But pays good 60k a year for 50hrs a week give or take(hourly pay with OT after 40). But when people hear sewage and dragging some times over 250ft of 3in vac hose. Digging 2ft in the ground etc etc. Most walk away.

[mndriver]

Sounds like y'all work too hard.

[Snowman7]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I had no intention for it to sound like a "debate" with you. Cool?

Its all good!

Originally Posted by golfhobo

But... I really DON'T want to work all that hard. I think you are younger than me. I'm 58 now. I'm not a very "large or stocky" person. AND.... I have a bad back. I even have trouble with some of our heavier dollies (without my team-mate.) Usually, not a problem but... many of our yards are sloped toward the trailers against the edge, and dragging that dolly up to the back of the front trailer can strain my hernia (forgot to mention that.) I'm only about 5' 10" and the wheels put the center of gravity up about my chest in some cases. Almost all of the "pull" has to be done by my arms in a sideways motion... kinda like raking leaves (which kills my back.)

Age is a factor. You would probably hate the dock. I started at 43, 52 now, I've learned tricks and shortcuts along the way. If I could get a run without dockwork I would but I've learned to tolerate it. Crossdocking is just part of LTL. I drive to a terminal in PA, work the dock 2-3 hours till my return freight is ready and return home. Some runs are just turns or meets but the senior guys take them. Like I said they pay me $27/hr while I'm there so it makes it easier to justify. I must say it does break up the night, there's coworkers to BS with etc. Last winter was brutal when it was -15 every fing night. I earned my money lol.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Well... I didn't really KNOW that. Thanks for the info. Guess I've just always thought of UPS as what I had heard about them... and that must have been UPS Ground! I'm a truck driver... not a dockworker. Just couldn't see having to pay THOSE kind of "dues" to be a driver. So, tell me.... with 9 years experience (6 with FedEx)... would I have to start at the bottom and make $35k/yr as a "newbie?"

Everyone starts the same, I think it's .40/mi and 17/hr? You get a raise every year for 4 years then you'll be at top rate. But you do start as a road driver. Bottom of the board. Basically the top third of the board takes all the good runs, the middle third is where I am, its a good living but you may or may not like your run. The bottom third is a mixed bag of anything and everything. Some nights are great, some nights there might be no work, you cover extra freight that doesn't fit on the scheduled runs, cover for guys on vacation, run wild. There's no set scenario. And it varies by terminal. There's a terminal in Charlotte and one of our largest hubs is in Gaffney. I think for you the best case scenario would be a sleeper run. If you can buddy up to a senior driver he bids the run and he gets to pick his co driver. A lot of senior guys don't want sleeper runs cause they can have a 5-600 mile turn and make the same money going home every day. I would guess 40ish first year and goes up 5-10k each year till top rate. How much you make depends on what rate you're at and how much work you get. Top third of every board at every terminal makes 100k. But they also work 60-70 hours. Half our board makes 80+. I'm actually good working 45-50 for 80k. Not sure I would take a longer run even if I could. But you're too old to ever get to top third. First five years would be erratic hours of feast or famine, and runs that include dock. Not every run includes dock, maybe 10-50% of the runs, depends on the terminal. Guys who hate the dock are good at hiding and not getting much work done, just waiting to go to their home terminal. You could try to pass the dock run to a junior guy but that might mean no work for the night. When times are slow you gladly take a dock run. There's really no way to say. It would be a huge gamble on your part to start with us. I'd say it's great for a younger guy. Eat some **** early in his career and then after 10 years he's on a gravy ride. Between the pension and SSI our guys retire making as much money as the average working OTR driver.

So back on topic. Driver's ideal jobs break down into, equipment, hometime, physical labor, compensation, bennies, and freedom.

For me the ranking would be:
hometime
compensation
bennies
freedom
physical labor
equipment

I probably have my ideal job, just wish I could choose my ideal run, 8-9 hours all driving no dock, don't really want the 12-14 hour days. My day is 9-10 with a couple hours dock in the middle, pretty close to ideal actually.

[GMAN]

There are a lot of drivers who complain about pay. But, with higher pay often comes more work. Many just want the bigger paycheck without the extra work or responsibility. Hauling cars pays well, but is hard work. You are also out in all kinds of weather. LTL can also be hard work bumping docks and making multiple stops. But, that can wear on you, too. I have spoken to some who want to make $100,000/year and only work a 40 hour week. I am sort of exaggerating a little on the pay, but not too much. The point being, life is a trade off. If you only want to work a 40 hour week you are probably not going to make the bigger pay. If you don't mind going the extra mile, being away from home and hard work, then you have a greater opportunity to earn the larger paycheck. We have become lazy as a nation.

[mndriver]

I've had at least one full week off each month all year. Total per diem days was 112 days this year. Aug, Nov, Dec I've had at least 2 weeks off as well as my weekends. I've still earned way north of anything I ever did trying to utilize my 4 year degree. All on less than 90,000 miles. Well south of the 110-120,000 miles a company driver or most leased operators will leased to a company.


You want to make money, how much work and initiative do you want to put into it? Then you'll have your dream job.