[Rev.Vassago]

Since my last question was the million dollar question, this one will be worth $500,000.

Given that you have some experience with both the company, as well as the custom motorcycle industry in general, what do you think the chances are that they will make it through the economic downturn? What do you think the chances are at if they do, the demand for custom motorcycles will be what it was before?

I think I know the answer to at least one of those questions, but I'm curious as to what you think. It sounds to me like your heart is at the bike builder, but your head isn't so sure.

[catalinaflyer]

Originally Posted by mnc41

On the one hand, it's good to know that people out there want you. There are some folks out there that can't get anything.This economy has really hit us personally, hard. Like everyone else said, you really have to think about where the economy is going to be 6 months from now or a year. Even Obama said it's going to get worse before it gets better. Heck, if the Post Office is talking about cutting back on delivery days, you know it's bad. Whatever you decide I hope it is the best for you and your family.. I still have my fingers crossed about Lonestar.

Did you ever make it to Lonestar? How's it going? There have been a couple Lonestar drivers come on here the last few weeks. I didn't get all the particulars from them but one of them had been there over two years and parked his truck at the Conyers terminal. He really didn't have a lot to say other than he ran into some problems with the driver manager, load planner and terminal manager. He's over here hauling blades now, in fact they are both hauling blades. Of the 4 company driver I went through orientation with, they are all gone and 4 of the 6 owner operators are gone as well. Of couse everything isn't all roses here at Wylie either, one of the HH drivers I went through orentation with deadheaded back to Fargo from Baltimore and walked. I don't know what his reasons were but talking to the guy who came in with him he had worked at 5 different companies in the past year. We had a class of 6, 1 HH driver quite, 1 flatbed driver quit and 1 flatbed driver got fired before he ever got his first load on.

[catalinaflyer]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Since my last question was the million dollar question, this one will be worth $500,000.

Given that you have some experience with both the company, as well as the custom motorcycle industry in general, what do you think the chances are that they will make it through the economic downturn? What do you think the chances are at if they do, the demand for custom motorcycles will be what it was before?

I think I know the answer to at least one of those questions, but I'm curious as to what you think. It sounds to me like your heart is at the bike builder, but your head isn't so sure.

You almost nailed it Rev. my heart is in the show circuit in particular not just the bike builder. It's a whole different sub-culture and nothing like being an OTR driver. It's an amazingly small and very tight knit family. You fart in a restaurant in Florida and before the smell leaves the room someone out at a show in California is giving you crap about it. Most divers who get into it don't make it because the family is extremely fickle towards newbies. Fortunately for me I came in with one of the most respected drivers on the circuit and once I had his approval the rest pretty much fell into place. Even with 2 1/2 years I was still forced to wear the noob hat. Once you gain the respect and approval of these guys and gals they will go out of their way to help you through anything, financially, emotionally and physically. My wife has them tied around her little finger because at all the major shows she bakes 4 dozen made from scratch cinnamon rolls and overnights then to us on the opening morning of the show.

As for my thoughts on the business and industry. I think as long as we don't go completely back to the dark ages the company itself will survive. As for the industry bouncing back to what it was 4 or 5 years ago that will never happen. It's going to be a lot leaner in the future. The guys and gals out buying these production-customs were able to get financing relatively easy and those that couldn’t would re-finance their houses at 125% of the value to buy toys. Now there’s a bunch of them who have really fancy motorcycles, boats and such but no garage to park them in. It will never be what it was, the American Chopper phenomenon is over.

Where I see the custom industry headed is towards more high-end bikes that appeal to the cash buyer. A whole lot fewer bikes will be built but they will be more custom and as such will be a lot higher priced. We may be in a bad economic situation right now but the money doesn’t just disappear, someone somewhere has it and sooner or later it will come back into the market. Remember, when the DOW tanks it’s because someone is selling and taking the cash to the mattress.

[Orangetxguy]

Choices....Choices.

Nice to have a choice....No??

[thbogle]

You have a very hard decision to make, one I would not want to have to make. It sounds as though you want to be back with the bikes but fear another lay off. You really need to sit and think about where you would be the most stable. Personally it sounds as if you have a really good deal where you are and it would make it hard for me to leave too. I couldn't leave Wylie if I was working there by the way you have been talking about them. Although the perks of going back to the bikes sounds really good as well, And is a very generous offer to get you back, obviously that is what they want.

Having said all this though it is not for anyone here to make this decision for you. This is a decision for you and your family to make together and then live with it. Just look at where you want to be in the next year. Then think about where you want to be in the next five. Which company will get you there? and which one will be around then? I think you have already answered your own question to us in your posts. Now you just need to realize it. Best of luck to you and your family regardless of your decison. In these troubled times nothing is certain, except that the bills will keep coming. I hope that you will continue to post here as I find them very informative and a good read. Again, good luck to you and yours.

[catalinaflyer]

Well thbogl I'm still undecided. I'm leaning towards staying right where I'm at for a few reasons, the stability of an 80 year old company is probably the biggest and second would be the potential to make more money. However, the motorcycle gig is a steady paycheck year round as it's salary so no matter what I get the same check every month. And right now with freight being so slow it's more per month but once it picks up then it would be less. No as much of a roller coaster. As for my family, they will stand behind me no matter which way I go but they really loved the motorcycle thing. My wifes a teacher and during her 2 month summer break she and the kids would fly out and meet me at some of the shows and that's always a good time. Two years ago we had the International Motorcycle show at the Javits Center on the weekend between Christmas and New Years. The company was going to have me drive out early, park the truck at our dealer on Long Island, fly home for Christmas, fly back and do the show then fly back home for New Years then fly back to get the truck. My wife offered the we just all go together and spend the holidays in New York City. I was on the phone with our contact person from the New York Times making the hotel arrangements with them since they had a hotel on the river in Wehawken, NJ blocked out for the event and we were going to the show as a coop marketing with the Times. The lady found out why I was wanting the room for an additional 5 nights and she told me to hang on. She called me back that afternoon and had made arrangements for me to park the truck and trailer at the Sheraton Suites in NJ and got us a suite at the Hilton Times Square for Christmas Eve and Christmas day and again for New Years Eve. That was a once in a lifetime experience for my children to be in Times Square for the holidays. We got to watch the entire New Years Eve. celebration from our room and were looking straight out the window at the ball drop. That sort of thing does not happen in trucking.

Home time, well in the motorcycle show business the paychecks may be steady but the hometime is something else, during the heart of the season it was nothing to be gone for 4 to 6 weeks, home for a day and gone again for another 4 to 6 to 8 weeks. But, when it slows down I was often home for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. There was the ocassion where I would have a Saturday only show, run the truck to the next venue 150 miles away hop on a plane and fly home till Thursday then fly back. They encourage that because it's generally cheaper for the plane tickets than it is for a week of hotel rooms and meals. Alot of the shows are dealer events that are weekend only affairs but the larger rallys are a different story. I would set up at Hooters in Myrtle Beach for bike week and be there for 18 days working from 8:00am to Midnight every single day (which BTW if the city of Myrtle Beach and Horray county have their way there will no longer be any motorcycle events there). Thats what ends the career for a lot of drivers who get into the whole show thing, they only see the big shiny million dollar truck, the babes and the beer. Once they actually do get into it they realize the big shiny truck is a full time job just keeping it looking that way and the rallys are hell as far as working. Would I change it, not on your life but I too was shocked for the first few months. Luckily for me though I was trained by someone who has been doing this for over 20 years and at first he comes off as an arrogant a-hole but in the end he was just wanting me to know what I was getting into and I respect him greatly for it. Driving the truck is actually less than 10% of the job. At the bigger events there are other manufacturers and companies there with their trucks and everyone helps everyone but at the dealer functions your usually on your own. Imagine taking a full set of lumber tarps, throwing them over your shoulder then climbing to the top of a 14' ladder and tossing them on the roof of a reefer. Thats what you have to do at every show to set up the awning that runs the full length of the 53' trailer and goes out 24'. I weighed mine one time just for fun and all bagged up (it's 1 single piece) it weighed 142#. Once you get the awning setup, the floor laid down and all the associated BS done then you have to start unloading 24 bikes which always draws a crowd no matter what the time of day or night it is. Then your trying to push bikes through people who get so mezmorized they don't realize your standing there holding a 700#+ motorcycle staring at them while they are standing right in front of you staring at the bike and haven't got a clue that your wanting to push it right where they are standing. Once all that's done your a sweaty stinky mess so you hop on a bike, run back to the motel, take a quick shower then run back to the show and stand there for the next 12 hours answering every question you can imagine (and some that will blow you mind). Then at the end of the day, they all have to get put away. At shows where theres security you just put them all under the awning and close up the sides but if there's no security they all have to go back in the trailer. Did I mention trying to keep the darn things clean? That's a never ending job in itself because everyone walks through the display and they have to touch the shiny chrome and pretty paint, not to mention the little kids who have to touch everything. BUT at the end of the day when you hop on a $100k custom chopper that you would never be able to afford and meet up with some of your friends from the other companies and head out for a ride and dinner, you instantly forget all the BS and can't wait to start it all over again in the morning.

With all that being said, I know that no one other than myself can make the decision and my point of posting all this here was and is not to try and get soemone to make the decision for me. I posted it because everyone has an opinion and some will post their opinions which may spark something else for me to consider. Sometimes people get a little too focused and loose sight of the whole picture and maybe just maybe someone will have a suggestion or comment to these posts that will get me to thinking and possibly see some aspect that I may have overlooked because I was daydreaming or just simply looking through rose colored glasses with blinders on the sides.

The motorcycle thing was and is not perfect, there were days that I'm sure my blood pressure was off the charts and I was ready to kill people. The same is true here at Wylie, there have been a couple of days here already where I was in the same boat. Does the good outweigh the bad? So far, hell yeah in both cases. There's such a huge difference between the two jobs though that it's not like comparing two like industries and trying to decide that way. If the economy today was like three years ago I would be back in the motorcycle business in a heartbeat but the whole world has changed in the last three years and now I'm not nearly as confident. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, Obama says it's going to get worse before it gets better, Bush said the worst was behind us and he wasn't running for re-election so who really knows. I don't think we will see it bounce back nearly as fast as it tanked but like I said in an earlier post, the money is still out there, it doesn't just dissappear, people that have it have taken it to the mattress and until they get comfortable with the economic situation they are going to keep it there. No matter, there are still people buying things, exponentially less than before but they are still out there. Trucking will never go away and there will always be jobs for drivers. Of course they are getting tougher to find and the turn-and-burn driver mills are becoming nonexistant but they too will return. Next year, 10 years or 20 years from now, no one knows but they will be back. People are still going to Wal-Mart and shopping, they may not be putting nearly as much in the cart but I was at Wal-Mart in Fargo last Sunday, which didn't open till noon but by 1:00 the parking lot was crammed full and the store was packed. Maybe most of that stuff is made in China but I didn't see a ship docked out back and near as I can remember there were no train tracks back there either.

I took a poll with the wife and kids last night and the wife was neutral, she liked the motorcycle thing and the steady paycheck but she also loves her new Jeep and the big house that we just finished completely remodeling. She knows the volitility of the industry and knows that we wouldn't come close to living like we do now on her paycheck and unemployment. The kids, well thats a whole different story, they just see the shiny truck, the fancy bikes and all the fun they had in the last 2 1/2 years so of course they had a one track mind but what do you expect from teenagers who have been spoiled their whole life. Yes I'm the biggest spoiler and no I won't change that for anything but thats a whole other topic.

Phew, another long answer to a short question and I'm not sure if I even answered it.

[Texasspider]

Originally Posted by catalinaflyer

I would set up at Hooters in Myrtle Beach for bike week

You are so right. When I saw that I just stopped reading and wondered what the hell was wrong with you.

In all seriousness I think you already know which direction you want to go in and now you're trying to talk yourself into it. I mean you have written a novel on here about the show circuit and everything bad about winds up as a footnote to all the good. I can respect wanting to think it though to make sure you're not deciding on emotion.

Just my 2 cents. I really enjoy reading all your post.

[catalinaflyer]

Texasspider:

Trust me, when I first started there and found out I was going to parked at Hooters front door for over two weeks, I really thought I had hit the powerball. And, for the first few days it was fine but by the end I couldn't get packed up and out of the parking lot soon enough. It's funny, we all set around and it's the same story, by the end of a long rally we're beat down and can't wait to leave town but after a week we can't wait for the next one. Of couse I'm old enough that every sngle one of those girls working there could be my daughter. And talk about drama, gather 30 to 40 college girls in that small a space and your just waiting for one of them to break out a MAC10 and start shooting. They're all smiles out in the front but we use the managers office quite a bit and as such get to go in and out the back and let me tell you, they aren't the same people when their not hustling some old biker for a tip, they are brutal towards each other and anyone who happens to be within firing distance. The managers of that particular store, Melissa and Scott, are amazing people. I began to wonder real quick why they had these strange ticks and quirks but after seeing what they deal with every day I would be tied to hospital bed and force fed little pills to make it all better.

The worst part about the whole Hooters gig, you set there for 16 to 18 days with the giant fans on the roof of the building spewing fry grease into the air then for the next 3 months, no matter what you wash your clothes in, every time you open your suitcase it smells like chikn wings. I can also tell you that everything on the hooters menu tastes exactly the same, just add some wing sauce to it and with a blindfold you have no idea what it is. The up side, the truck and trailer have a really nice shine to them but the dust sticks really bad.

That's all in the past now though, the city of Myrtle Beach and Horray county have effectively banned all bike gatherings and in talking to my former employer, they are not going to try and comply with all the rediculous regulations to get the truck back there again.

Anyone want to go to Hooters for lunch?

[mnc41]

Originally Posted by catalinaflyer

Did you ever make it to Lonestar? How's it going? There have been a couple Lonestar drivers come on here the last few weeks. I didn't get all the particulars from them but one of them had been there over two years and parked his truck at the Conyers terminal. He really didn't have a lot to say other than he ran into some problems with the driver manager, load planner and terminal manager. He's over here hauling blades now, in fact they are both hauling blades. Of the 4 company driver I went through orientation with, they are all gone and 4 of the 6 owner operators are gone as well. Of couse everything isn't all roses here at Wylie either, one of the HH drivers I went through orentation with deadheaded back to Fargo from Baltimore and walked. I don't know what his reasons were but talking to the guy who came in with him he had worked at 5 different companies in the past year. We had a class of 6, 1 HH driver quite, 1 flatbed driver quit and 1 flatbed driver got fired before he ever got his first load on.

SO far it's going pretty good. he is coming home today. He was out for 4 weeks plus the one for orientation.He spent a lot of time sitting (I thought), but he did get some loads. He spent most of his time hauling loads throughout TX. He got a 3 stopper going from Pharr, TX to IL, last stop in Rockford last week. He picked up some CAT stuff in Morton, TX, took it to Miami Beach, picked up a load in Winter Garden, re powered it in Orlando with another driver heading back to TX and now he is on his way home to NC. He has a doctor's appointment on Monday. He says he has a good dispatcher and he likes it. He has already made friends with some of the other drivers he has met and I hope when he goes back out on Tues he will be a little busier. he gets antsy when he sits too long...

[catalinaflyer]

Originally Posted by mnc41

SO far it's going pretty good. he is coming home today. He was out for 4 weeks plus the one for orientation.He spent a lot of time sitting (I thought), but he did get some loads. He spent most of his time hauling loads throughout TX. He got a 3 stopper going from Pharr, TX to IL, last stop in Rockford last week. He picked up some CAT stuff in Morton, TX, took it to Miami Beach, picked up a load in Winter Garden, re powered it in Orlando with another driver heading back to TX and now he is on his way home to NC. He has a doctor's appointment on Monday. He says he has a good dispatcher and he likes it. He has already made friends with some of the other drivers he has met and I hope when he goes back out on Tues he will be a little busier. he gets antsy when he sits too long...

Thats good news. At least it sounds like they are working with him to get him home when he needs to be there. I don't know how it is at Lonestar now but in the last week we went from not having any loads to slammed. I know what I'm doing for at least the next week or so. I deliver in IL on Monday and am already booked on a load. All of the sudden all our HH/Specialized trucks are in short supply. They even pulled a couple trucks off wind on Thursday to cover loads.

Who did you husband get for a dispatcher? I had Loree and she was fantastic. If it wasn't for her boss/load planner I would still be there but I left then 4 days later he was fired.