[Iceman]

We were o/o previously, so I know the drill. Ordinarily doing a lease-purchase can be scary, but I downloaded OOIDA's lease-purchase proforma and plugged in the numbers. After ALL the costs, even taxes and child support(which is a killer), we'd have $56000 net. I compared their proforma with England and Werner's and May's is right up there. The lease payment is lower in fact. They pay currently 1.23 cpm including current surcharge, which is about average, and I got all of their insurance costs, etc. Lease payment for a 2004 is $450/wk. For the next 4 years this sounds as good as we can hope for since we don't have another alternative other than remaining a company driver. As far as the mpg is concerned, Qual has the program to track that, and I was actually being conservative saying 8mpg because it hikes up to 8.5 on many days. Yes, he does keep it at 55. Later---

Iceman's Wife Suze

[Longsnowsm]

I think the driver needs to do those fuel calcuations manually... Something is seriously wrong. And it sounds like you might be using those numbers in your calculations for your lease purchase... Not a good idea. Use something like 5.5 or optimistically 6 mpg in your calculations and see what it looks like. Then if what you have been seeing in the 8 to 8.5 is actually right then super, but I wouldn't base your estimates on those optimistic numbers. Secondly summer fuel mixtures perform better than winter fuel. I routinely see a 10% or greater fall off in fuel economy with winter fuel mixes. You will want to be conservative with your calculations so that you don't have a big downside surprise.

Also it sounds like your missing some numbers for the lease purchase if your coming up with that sort of net. As I mentioned above look at the numbers your plugging in for fuel. I have run the numbers with all the big carriers leases, and augmented with info from O/O's here on this site for maintenance and the incidentals and it turns out to be about .10-18 cpm I would get to keep as the driver once I put in all the numbers, factored in bounce(deadhead or bobtail), items that aren't covered by warranties etc. So I would ask some questions, because the calculations your coming up with don't sound right. No reason to put yourself at risk because the numbers you used were too optimistic or you overlooked expenses. BOL

Longsnowsm

[hamboner]

If u used to be an O/O, why are u going lease/purchase? Sounds like you are looking to make these #'s work for you. Ain't no way in hell that truck is getting 8.5 mpg! Face the facts 8.5 mpg is way out of line on a 379. I'm sorry.... I hope u guys do well, but a lot of these companies like to show you the #'s you want to see. Hardly ever though do they come out on your end like they do on theirs. If it was so lucrative to lease the truck and make money why wouldnt they do it? Thats right......they can make more money off you footing the bills than themselves. All of the lease purchases are based on you running a certain amount of miles per week. How do u know you will get those miles? If not, you only have to wait 4 years to get out of the deal and hope to do better! Like I said before....I hope you do well, but I sure would hate to know I have put my income in someones hands for 4 years! Keep us updated and show us the #'s. Hell...if you do alright this will be a good post for someone wanting to compare #'s

[Longsnowsm]

It is just too easy to overlook the details on these leases. Too many drivers don't take to time to think through the details... For example has the driver figured out that they will be responsible for all their own expenses? Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, Health insurance, retirement plan... Oh, if that truck pukes a motor tomorrow who pays? You say the warranty? Nice catch, but the truck is down for 3 weeks for the repairs who pays the truck payment and all of those bills for that 3 weeks while your sitting? Trucking is seasonal with highs and lows... 3000-3500 miles a week suddenly turns into 2000-2500 miles during the slow periods... Gee, the driver seemed to have done all their calculations based on some rosey numbers they were given from the peaks of the freight season... I wonder who picks up those differences in income... Remember that truck payment doesn't go down or go away just because there isn't any freight, or you truck is broken down for repairs... If your not being honest with yourself about the fuel, what else are you not being honest with yourself about?

I know, we all just make this stuff up just to be negative right? Well chew on this one. Go into the OO forum and ask, What is the minimum you will haul a load for? I bet 99.99% of them will tell you that they wouldn't start the truck for $1.20 a mile without a FSC let alone for say .90 cpm and a $1.20 with a FSC. So why is it such a great deal for someone in a lease to basically have all the same expenses as a OO, but haul for a fraction of the money that a true OO will haul for? Something isn't right. Several of these seasoned OO's own their trucks outright and don't have those massive truck payments and they wouldn't haul a load for the rates you willing to take!

These rookie lease operators are in way over thier heads when they are so overwhelmed with the numbers that they don't do thier own due diligence and figure out the details that they are not being given by the leasing carriers. You've heard of the term "Buyer Beware", the same applies to the leaser "Leaser Beware". I wish you the best Iceman, but your heading for a disaster and are on borrowed time right out of the gate in these leases. BOL

Longsnowsm

[Iceman]

O.K. I dropped miles down to 2500/wk and dropped mpg down to 7.0. Even our Freightliner got that, and the Volvo he drove was at 7.5. I know you guys drive faster, but slower is the only thing that saves us. May's Qual uses every possible tool for shifting and maximizing fuel. They are one tough company in that department. He's never in 25+ years had a speeding ticket! That's just his way. I used OOIDA's lease purchase proforma and even the guy at May asked where we got the spreadsheet because it is so concise. Anyway, even at that the bottom line is net 40K. I spent 25 years doing real estate loans and crunching numbers for buyers and I don't know how to factor in any more "stuff" than I have. I used $3/gal fuel, plus maintenance reserve, Qual, Licenses, Permits, Physical Damage, Non-trucking, Cargo, Workmens' Comp, Road/Fuel Tax, Truck Washing, Tickets, Lease Payment, Medical, IRS taxes, you name it even his child support payments. Deadhead and bobtail pay as if loaded. Did NOT factor in load/unload pay or detention pay to keep it as conservative as I can. Other than miles and mpg I can't see anything that can change. In addition I will put aside $1000/mo for "whatever" out of my own income. Not an easy hill to climb but he sure as heck won't make it as a company driver. We had to sell our auto-transport rig because Iceman got throat cancer, even though he isn't a smoker. For awhile that sucked up everything we had and now we have to rebuild credit and just about everything else. It can happen at any age believe me. I hope this works. My only true concern is that they give him the loads. May doesn't want to lose any O/O contracts so they really have to keep him moving. We are going into the slow months until, what, probably March, and I have to think about that as well. If I forgot anything let me know! Oh, almost left this out. We put 15K down on a 2002 Freightliner auto-transport deal, good credit with Daimler-Chrysler, and the payment was $2400/mo for 4 yrs. This purchase had nothing down and it's 1800/mo for 4 yrs. At the end of both we own. We have never wanted to run under our own authority. Hauling cars we were paid 80% of the load and had to run like a scalded ape. Mileage is much better than by the load for us. There may be lots of O/O's who won't run for $1.24/mile but I compared many companies for leasing on and this is right in line with what others are paying, more in some cases. It wouldn't change even if we came on with our own tractor. I'm not trying to "Make" the numbers work because that would just be pie in the sky. May actually doesn't have this set up as a lease. It is a true purchase for a set period of time, just as the finance was with DCS. Lease refers to leasing on to them. Hope that is clarified. Also, yesterday Iceman and the O/O manager reviewed his stats as far as miles and mpg. In the entire company his mpg is higher than anyone else, simply due to his habits. He's older and not a hot shot driver, doesn't idle much, doesn't haul heavy, and he watches his shifting. Maybe old guys do O.K. in the long run. His miles are right in the niche that they require. This is why I am using a lower mpg figure just to be very conservative, and also May says that O/O's have to run 11,000 miles per month minimum in order to make it, which is why they monitor them so closely. This is exhausting. Will take until end of October to make a decision. Shorter post next time I guarantee you!! :lol:

See Ya!
Iceman's Wife Suze

[hamboner]

All I can say is that I wish you luck. I hope you will post how well you are doing with the real #'s each week. This is going to be interesting for everyone to see. Looks like you have everything figured out!

Lease purchases only benefit one party..... The Carrier.

[OverTheRoad]

Any news on your husband?

[nobotox]

Fresh outa cdl school. Scheduled for orientation next Monday(10-9) in Phoenix. Anyone else? Do you get assigned a truck in Phoenix or do they send you to Salem?

[OverTheRoad]

Your trainer will most likely come to you. Sometimes they will have you ride with another driver to get to your trainer but its rare. MTC can get into Phoenix rather easily. They run a ton of freight around the CA - AZ area. Plan on going out for 30 days straight.
This is just what I have learned from being around May for the last 3 weeks. Good luck, keep in touch.