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  #1  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:01 AM
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Default CSA 2010...all drivers need to see this

Justruckin
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CSA 2010, you guys need to see this...

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I have been looking at these new regs coming down, and they do not look good.

I would start here, there are interviews with a few companies and info on how you as a driver will be scored, yes you. Interviews within the Industry on the CSA 2010 FMCSA Mandate

This is some very scary stuff, and will cost quite a few their CDL and or businesses.

Start on the left side bar and work your way down, pay particular attention to how you as a driver will be scored. And your scoring will start in 2007, not 2010. CSA 2010 FMCSA New Carrier Rating System Measured by 7 Behavior Analysis & Safety Improvement Categories

Read the above and start asking questions. It may just save your job. This looks very serious and not to be taken lightly. I think I would rather have a black box in my truck, and I am squeaky clean but I can see the potential for some serious abuse here to both drivers and carriers. No one will escape.

Thanks Justruckin
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:05 PM
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Where's the link to the new regs??
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Shnerdly View Post
Where's the link to the new regs??
see here

http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/o...-need-see.html
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:29 AM
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Here is the point multiplier formula:

Violations under CSA 2010 Carry More Weight
I recently had the opportunity to speak with a safety director in one of the CSA 2010 test states and found that the FMCSA has already made a significant change in their published formulas for calculating safety scores. Violations have points assigned to them based on their likelihood of causing an accident or fatality. For example a speeding violation carries 5 points. The formulas used to calculate the safety scores assign a multiplier to more recent violations. FMCSA had published that violations in the most recent 0 – 12 months would have a multiplier of 2 (x 2) and violations occurring in the 13 to 24 month range would have a multiplier of 1.

What I found out in my conversation with the safety director was the formulas were now different. Violations in the most recent 0 – 6 months have a multiplier of 3 (x 3), violations in the 7 – 12 month range have a multiplier of 2 (x 2) and violations in the 13 to 24 month range have a multiplier of 1.

That’s a huge change in the impact the recent violations carry and could easily take a company from an acceptable safety score to a marginal level or worse. The FMCSA means business! CSA 2010 is still a work in progress and changes will likely continue through the testing phase. Therefore, it is extremely important for all drivers and carriers to stay on top of this new initiative and be ready for the full implementation of CSA 2010 in July through December of 2010.

FMCSA has now published the new formulas with the new multiplier
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:48 AM
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So does this mean that DOT is going to get with every carrier and pull every drivers DAC and MVR and assign us a score?
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WS6 View Post
So does this mean that DOT is going to get with every carrier and pull every drivers DAC and MVR and assign us a score?
Yes, they will go back 3 years on your driving record and 2 years on a carrier. And that is one of the main reasons that some drivers are already losing their jobs under the CSA2010 regs. The points needed for a driver intervention are 90, and 72 for a carrier.

Where it gets sticky, is the fact that any new points a driver receives are multiplied by 3. So a speeding ticket is 5 points, but after the multiplier, it will show on your record as 15 along with hitting the carrier you work for with 15 points. And warnings are handled as violations too, using the same point structure.

How does it work? Let's say you get pulled over for speeding, 5 over on I-94 in Jackson County MI, 65 in a 60 (70 for cars), and a roadside DOT inspection. The cop finds three problems with your logs, that costs you say 9 points. You are running late and figure you will get the log for that day caught up at the consignee, who hasn't done that. Then Mr. DOT finds a few things on your equipment after crawling all over and under it for an hour, nothing that will put you out of service though, so he just gives you a warning and tells you to get it fixed. But, warnings count too towards your driving record, so you get another 6 points. And then he looks in your cab from the drivers door and sees that you have a TV and a laptop on the floor, now that gets you put out of service under the new fatigue rules and 10 more points. And lets not forget the speeding ticket, he is nice enough to give you another warning, cause he likes your attitude, but you still get 5 more points. Yep, you got a ***** for a DOT cop. So, after all is said and done, you now have a whopping 30 points, are put OOS and missed your delivery. Now take those 30 points and multiply by 3... You just scored a 90, and are now looking for another job.

Sure, maybe a bit of a stretch, but lets say the above happened over a 9 month period, it still leads to 90 points. Like I said, there is allot of room for abuse here.

Now I called and spoke with the guy that put allot of this down on paper and has been interviewing the carriers in the 7 test states that are already running under CSA2010. The one question I had for him was what role will the insurance companies play in all of this? They will want a say in who gets fired and hired under this new point scheme, as this looks to carry the same weight as ones MVR. The record keeping looks like it will fall to DAC for all drivers, but will the insurance companies have access to the driver scores? That has yet to be decided as far as he knew, but we both figured that it would only be a matter of time and the insurance companies will be right there in the thick of it.

And when they do get involved, what will be the magic CSA2010 score that would keep a driver from being hired or when a carrier would be told to drop this guy because he has to many points on his CSA record?

Currently, with my insurance company, if you have over 4 points on your MVR, they will not allow me to hire a driver. What will the CSA point score be, 30, 50, before you as a driver are not hireable? Again, this system is so open for abuse not only from the DOT, but also from the insurance companies and the carriers.

One string of bad luck under this new system could honestly ruin even the best of drivers and also throw a good carrier right under the bus. Trust me, I have had months like that as a carrier and a driver, every darn thing that could go wrong does, through no fault of my own.

Last edited by Justruckin; 10-24-2009 at 11:51 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2009, 12:06 PM
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I could see this being a baaaad thing. things are tough as they are but managable. They keep the drivers alert because a serious acedent can break your career. I can speak from experience since I was off the road for 7 mos b4 I found a local place that would keep me driving. I could see minor things getting you off the road with the new system.
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Old 10-24-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justruckin View Post
And then he looks in your cab from the drivers door and sees that you have a TV and a laptop on the floor, now that gets you put out of service under the new fatigue rules and 10 more points.

You give out good info, don't try to over hype it. This is not a regualtion and will not result in a point violation, it was a misguided attempt by the state of MN to circumvent the rules that are already in place and they have been told from the FMCSA that they are not empowered to enforce it

Quote:
A document obtained by OOIDA discloses conclusions by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) that the State of Minnesota failed to adopt safety regulations covering interstate motor carriers and their drivers. The document also states FMCSA’s position that there has been no delegation of authority by FMCSA that would allow Minnesota enforcement officers to enforce federal regulations on interstate motor carriers or their drivers
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike3fan View Post
You give out good info, don't try to over hype it. This is not a regualtion and will not result in a point violation, it was a misguided attempt by the state of MN to circumvent the rules that are already in place and they have been told from the FMCSA that they are not empowered to enforce it
I don't think I am trying to over hype, just spelling it out and hopefully get a few guys attention, as this is what we are possibly facing out here in our current economic situation. I could see states ordering the DOT to step up the inspections to bring in much needed revenue. Then throw these new regs in, an over zealous revenue collecting DOT cop and this CSA2010 could really spell disaster for a driver.

And think about it, work is thin to say the least out here, if you have a job you are lucky in many cases. Well, it could be said for the smaller carriers too. The income stream is way down, credit line has been cut or just turned off and you still need to make the payments and pay the help. So, you let the trucks slide a little, nothing serious, but the carrier just does not have the money to keep everything perfect on the truck like they used to. Tires are wearing a little thin, some wiring is bad regarding lighting, etc. And they want you to have the repairs done at the yard, but you know that it will be a week or more until you get back to the terminal. What are you going to do as a driver, park the truck? Will you fix it yourself out of your pocket? Or will you quit and hope you can find another outfit to work with that doesn't have such revenue problems?

Or, if you work for a big carrier and do a drop and hook, middle of the night, trailer is pre-loaded and needs to be delivered 200 miles away for a 6am delivery. There are a few issues with the trailer, but nothing that will deter you from moving it safely to the consignee but bad enough to know that if the scale house down the road pulls you around back you will be getting a point or two. So, what do you do? Wait until morning? Call a service truck? Back track 50 miles to that TA with the shop? Take your chances at the scale house? God, this is nerve racking!

And this is trucking, and I would say the majority of folks have no intentions of doing anything illegal out here or plan on getting into an accident. But sometimes things just don't go our way and the freight still has to go. In a perfect world, none of this would be an issue. I just see this as an incredibly bad time to change the rules on their head and to zealously go after so many people in such a hurting industry. I believe that the government will get the desired results, but at what cost to our industry as a whole.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2009, 05:04 PM
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So lets say you have a minor at fault accident in you personal vehicle on your MVR like I do. When DOT goes over my MVR to give me my score will they be looking into that for points or just tickets?
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