[rank]

hmm yeah the handbook seems to say there is no difference in AWLL no matter how you chain it. Here is the reg that Allan and I are using:

sect;393.106(d) - Determining the aggregate working load limits for tiedowns.

Agency Policy: The aggregate working load limit of tiedowns used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:

1. One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle to an attachment point on an article of cargo; and
2. The working load limit for each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle, through, over or around the cargo and then attaches to another anchor point on the vehicle.

...and another discussion here:

http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/a...p/t-41414.html

[Bigmon]

I was trying to be funny. Chill. This is why CAD is dead.

Originally Posted by Musicman

You really have me confused with somebody else. In seven years of truck ownership I've never altered the gearing or tire size of the trucks I’ve owned. Changes like that always seemed like too much investment with little chance of any ROI. The biggest modification I’ve ever made was having the EGR programming removed from my ECM and having PSI Meritor tire inflators installed on my trailer when I bought it. I have experimented with different brands and treads of tires over the years and even once played with a set of retreads, but that’s about it. Anyone betting that I’m aspiring to follow in Tracer’s footsteps will lose their money.

If you’re simply trying to be funny, I can accept that. If you are seriously going to fault me for presenting questions for comment from guys with more flatbedding experience than I, then the only thing you are succeeding at doing is spotlighting your own insecurities. So far, besides asking if I’ve read a thread that chronicles one guy’s journey of racking up debt and squandering away money, you’ve added exactly zero to this thread. In six years of CAD membership I’ve rarely had the occasion to ask for advice because I usually don’t need any. I study a situation and figure things out for myself. It’s a shame that the one time I’m actually reaching out for experienced feedback, I’ve gotten only a few helpful responses when I know there are many more successful, experienced open deck trailer guys who are members of CAD. Clearly you’ve never read any of my past posts or you’d know that Tracer and I have different approaches to trucking and probably just about everything else in life.

One of the BIG differences between Tracer and me is that I generally don’t do debt. Yes, I’m financing this new trailer, but it is at 8.46% and while I could pay cash for the Reitnouer, it makes more sense to me to keep that cash invested where I have it, as it is in a liquid investment that is earning a higher return than what the trailer loan is costing me. In addition, given that I am moving into one of the few areas of trucking that I have little experience with (6 months pulling a curtain side and open flat, hauling pipe and fittings, lumber and steel), it makes sense to me to keep a large liquid reserve in the event that I find myself running leaner than anticipated. Unlike Tracer, I don’t blow huge amounts of money (or in Tracer’s case, huge amounts of credit) on modifications that will show little return. I find that working with what I have usually makes much more sense.

I really do appreciate the serious replies I’ve gotten from those who are truly trying to be helpful. Allan’s advice holds particular weight because he’s doing exactly what I’m looking at doing. I even appreciate the debate on aerodynamics and fuel consumption instigated by YerDaddy. Healthy debate is always a good. Sniping, however, is not particularly productive or flattering to the sniper, Bigmon. Perhaps you could take notes on THAT and learn something.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by rank

hmm yeah the handbook seems to say there is no difference in AWLL no matter how you chain it.

Finally some clarity in this issue… thanks Rank! After reading your last response and the linked thread and after looking up and reading the actual regs, I see your position is correct. I don’t know wtf they were thinking when they wrote that handbook because it is in direct conflict with the regs. Surprisingly, the actual regs add a great deal of clarity to an issue the handbook muddies. I also find it interesting that they differentiate between a tiedown that goes from driver’s side to passenger side and one that goes to two trailer anchor points on the same side of the trailer. Now, with my J-hook system, if I use two J-hooks that are each just one foot on either side of the middle point of the trailer am I going to get hassled? Makes me wonder.


d) Aggregate working load limit for tiedowns. The aggregate working load limit of tiedowns used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:
(1) One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle to an anchor point on an article of cargo;
(2) One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that is attached to an anchor point on the vehicle, passes through, over, or around the article of cargo, and is then attached to an anchor point on the same side of the vehicle.
(3) The working load limit for each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle, through, over, or around the article of cargo, and then attaches to another anchor point on the other side of the vehicle.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by Bigmon

I was trying to be funny. Chill. This is why CAD is dead.

As previously stated, "If you’re simply trying to be funny, I can accept that." I however will admit that I don't like the insinuation that I have anything in common with somebody who has done the foolish things Tracer has. One “funny” comment asking is I had read Tracer’s thread, alluding that I was going down his path was okay. The second comment insinuating that I’m stupid for doing this with a 387 was tolerable but bordering on overkill. The last comment, given I’ve never done anything like it before, about the probability of my throwing thousands away on frivolous modifications was over the top. If all you do is attempt to be “funny” without ever contributing anything useful, it makes you a sniper… like a little ankle-biting, yipping dog that is good for nothing but annoyance. This is especially true if your “funny” comments sound like personal attacks. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that you ARE that Chihuahua, but doing what you just did in this thread, whether intentional or not sure gives that impression. This forum is dead for a lot of reasons, but people making unwarranted personal attacks probably has something to do with it.

[allan5oh]

Here's the actual regulation:

(d) Aggregate working load limit for tiedowns. The aggregate working load limit of tiedowns used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:

(1) One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle to an anchor point on an article of cargo; (direct tie down)

(2) One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that is attached to an anchor point on the vehicle, passes through, over, or around the article of cargo, and is then attached to an anchor point on the same side of the vehicle. (indirect tie down to same side of vehicle)

(3) The working load limit for each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle, through, over, or around the article of cargo, and then attaches to another anchor point on the other side of the vehicle. (indirect tie down to other side of vehicle)

Don't worry about pissing us off or anything, this isn't something to screw around with. We both take our jobs very seriously, any shifting or falling cargo could spell disaster or even death.

[allan5oh]

Well screw me for not checking to see if there was a fourth page. Glad it's settled though.

[Musicman]

I just don’t want it to appear to anyone that I’m arguing a point with those who obviously know more than me about the topic. I can tell you anything you need to know about running a box, reefer or even enclosed auto transport, but when it comes to running an open deck, I readily defer to those with the experience. I just want to make sure I’ve got the regs properly embedded in my thick skull before I hit the road in a week or two. We’re picking up the trailer Monday and then stopping off in Saint Louis to get Meritor PSI tire inflators installed on the way home. After that, I just need to put my headache rack on (it shipped from MN yesterday) and get all the equipment properly stowed and I’ll be hitting the road.

[rank]

Originally Posted by Musicman

I just don’t want it to appear to anyone that I’m arguing a point.....

Rules change, so I'm glad you brought that to our attention.....it may have been a new change that I didn't know about.

Don't worry, you're okay. Know matter how much you know...or think you know, there will always be something that trips you up and gets you a ticket. I am still waiting to be ticketed for chaining to the rub rail or a stake pocket....or not chocking the wheels on a wheeled vehicle. The overzealous DOT cop can get you with anything. All we can do is minimize the risk.

BTW, are the Reitnouer J hooks marked with a WLL? I have a 1995 and I don't think they are.....could be wrong tho cuz we don't use them much. Been a while since I looked.

[no_worries]

I want to know where I can get in on a liquid investment yielding over 8.5%!

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by rank

BTW, are the Reitnouer J hooks marked with a WLL? I have a 1995 and I don't think they are.....could be wrong tho cuz we don't use them much. Been a while since I looked.

I’m not sure if they are marked, as I don’t have my trailer yet, but I would like to think they would be. Reitnouer’s website doesn’t say, but a dealer’s site I found says that they range from 6,700 lbs up to 8,700 lbs depending on configuration (6 inch or 9 inch).