[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Dave_0755

Gman I don't know who you haul for or what brokers you use. You said for me not to sign up with a broker until I have pulled a load for them. How do I pull a load before I sign up? They want a W-9, insurance and authority before I pull the load. It sounds like a contradiction to me.

I said "take a load," not pull the load. In other words, you book a load but don't haul it until all the paperwork has been done. I am sorry if I wasn't clear on my post. A broker will require that you send all of your paperwork along with a signed contract before they will send a rate confirmation. I can't see taking all the extra time and expense of setting up with a lot of brokers. At this point you don't even know if you will be hauling a load for them. Some brokers won't even send a contract until their is a load in play. It is a lot of extra work for them, as well.


I understand that I can get a load off of the load board but they still want the company info first before I haul the load.......correct?? I would think signing up for more brokers would increase my odds of getting a higher paying load. I would not want to be limited to one broker that has one load paying $1.20 a mile. When there are other loads in the same area that pays more but are being brokered through another company. Then again maybe I am completely dumb here and don't understand the process.

It doesn't take long to do all the paperwork. It also won't make any difference whether you are already set up with a broker or not. If they have a load and you have authority and insurance you can book the load.

I also understand about getting a scanner/copier. How do you get a fax in a truck? A fax requires a land line phone line correct? I was going to get a scanner/copier and use a service like E-fax that gets the fax through the Internet and sends it by email. Is this what you meant? If there is another way I would like to know about it. Thanks again.

I use a laptop with an air card. You can also use WiFi at many truck stops. I connect my all in one printer to an inverter in the truck. I can send and receive faxes or email from my truck anywhere that I have a signal. You will need to subscribe to an internet fax service such as myfax or efax. I pay $10/month for my fax service. Since the fax comes through the internet you don't need a landline.

[Dave_0755]

Thanks for explaining Gman. I doubt that I would ever "pull" a load down the road with no paperwork anyway. It's just the company's and brokers that I'm calling are not discussing loads unless I'm signed up already.

I was trying to get on C.H.Robinsons website to look at their loads and it won't even let me in unless I have a T-number. I called and asked for the T-number and the lady said to give her an email address and she would send me something. She sent me an email with a form attached. In the email it's asking to sign up and give the W-9, insurance info and the form itself is paperwork allowing me and C.H. Robinson to do business with each other.

When I called her back she said that is the only way I can see loads that they have posted. And she said no one there would discuss loads unless I was signed up first. She said it works best for them for me to already be signed up before I call about a load. Then if I want the load everything goes smoother and faster.

Landstar is the same. You can see their loads and the origin and destination but they won't discuss the load unless you have signed up with them before you call about the load.

I think they must have a lot of cold calls coming in asking about loads and the carriers are not signed up to do business with them. They are demanding to fill out the forms and get the carriers info FIRST before load info is discussed.

Now maybe if I post my empty truck first then a broker might call me and it might work different. I haven't did it either way so I don't know first hand. I'm just going by what they tell me when I call. I know after talking to the local guy here at the branch office with C.H. Robinson that I WILL be doing business with him. I've heard a lot of bad talk about brokers but he gave me a lot of info for free and stayed on the phone with me for a long time. He said when I got ready to go to sign up with C.H. Robinson and he would help find all the loads i wanted to pull in this area. Then again we didn't discuss specific prices either. He just said that I should never pull a load for less than $1.50 a mile.

i just want to sign up with companies like this first and give them a try for a couple of reasons. One being load boards like Get loaded have monthly fees. Second I see a lot of loads posted on Get Loaded and the other pay for load boards that are double brokered. It seems like to me it's not worth my time to pay for a load board when I can sign up with a large broker or trucking company or 4 or 5 and see their load boards for free.

[rank]

$25,000 after tax profit on 80,000 loaded miles is your goal?

Means you need to earn ~ $35,000 pre tax?

$35,000/80,000 paid miles = $.44/mile profit. A lofty goal indeed, but it can be done. Question is, what are the expenses?

-Your fuel might be ~.60/mile......now you're at $1.04.
-Figure repairs and mait at $.10/mile....$1.14
-Insurance at $4700 (seems low)....$1.20
-Plates at $2,000...$1.23
-This leaves us with the capital cost of the equipment. You said you were planning to spend $25,000 of your own money on this venture.....not sure what you're planning to pay for the truck and trailer....$50,000? Let's depreciate that down to $20,000 and ammortize it over 3 years or 240,000 miles.....($50,000-$20,000)/240,000 = $.125/mile.....

Now you're at a cost per mile of $1.36.

Let's not forget unpaid miles. This depends alot on where you live (bad freight area = lots of unpaid miles) and how frequently you want to be home. You might wind up DH'ing 500 miles Sunday night to get out and another 500 Friday night to get home. Anyway, let's figure 15% DH at .50 mile for fuel....that's $7500 that you need to get back out of that 80,000 paid miles. $7500/80,000 = $.09/mile.

Now you're at $1.45/mile. That's about the minimum rate you need to make your goal.

What if your truck has major problems soon after you buy it (likely). Better have ~$15,000 in cash at the ready.

And someone else mentioned you'll need about 90 days of operating capital before you get any money coming in.

Oh yeah, there's also a bunch of stuff I left out....Personal health/accident insurance.....food...load boards...phone.......interest...bad debts.....fines...tolls....laptop...GPS...

Seems like an expensive business because it is.

Like I said, it really depends on where you live. I hear OH to ON is paying well enough these days to cover the MT return trip. If you live near OH that could work.

[Dave_0755]

Thanks Rank. I guess 3500 miles per week at .29 cents per mile working for a company is my only option. Looks like I'll be a company driver forever.

Just hate it for those lease purchase drivers making .90 cents per mile with a $1200 truck payment and $150 per week trailer lease. I guess they are paying out of pocket to work.

What about the guys with $2500 Peterbilt and Kenworth payments and getting 4 mpg? I guess they have to average $4.50 per mile NET to meet a profit?

You make me feel like a complete jerk and loser and I thank you for that. I never said once that I knew it all. I never said once that I WOULD make it in this business. It's a dream of mine ( and my deceased father a trucker of over 25 years) to own a truck and have my own business. I thought it would be helpful to come here for instructions and directions on how to make it and what not to do. Instead you come in like a bull in a china store and cut me down to my knees, attempting to humiliate and make me feel like crap. I thank you for that. Keep up the compliments and praise.

It just makes me want to do it that much more actually. I have never been one to back down due to scare tactics.

Here's some numbers that I have figured to counter yours.

$21,000 cost for truck and trailer. NOT $50,000 like you suggested.

05 International 9400i with 700,000 miles. New tires, brakes, and APU. Cost = $17,000

99 to 01 Great Dane or Utility trailer. Cost= $4,000 with D.O.T. and new tires and brakes installed.

Total cost = $21,000 Truck and Trailer.

Total cost of Insurance = $4700.00. 500 mile radius of my home town. Includes $1 million liability on a paid for truck and $100,000 cargo.

Total out of pocket so far = $25,700. I still have money in the bank (after these costs) to cover maintenance, loads that don't pay, breakdown and so forth and so on.

Now for the loads. I contacted C.H. Robinson (they have a branch office in the town where I live.) The man I spoke to said there is literally hundreds of loads per day for me to choose from within a 0 to 50 mile radius of where I live. Thus no deadhead starting out at the beginning of the week, or when I leave from here. He also said I could easily get loads paying at the least $1.50 per mile out and return to this area.

So $1.50 per mile x 80,000 per year = $120,000 gross per year. (To me this is still low.)

Still $120,000 minus $25,000 net leaves me with $95,000 gross income per year.

I really don't understand your math on $35,000 gross pay only equaling $25,000 per year net. I've worked since I was 16 years old ( I'm now 39) and have never paid more than 15% tax on gross pay (This is total Federal and Arkansas State Tax).

$35,000 minus 15% tax still only equals $5250 total tax which leaves a net of $29,700. I can definitely live on that.

Actually all i need for personal bills still is $25,000 per year net. This with the numbers I stated still leaves me with $95,000 gross per year. Fuel being the biggest expense. If I spent $4.00 per gallon for 80,000 miles per year @ 5 mpg that leaves me with a total fuel expense of $64,000 gross before tax fuel costs. Diesel is a cost of doing business? My accountant thinks so.

But still $95,000 minus $64,000 equals $31,000 gross profit to the company.

BTW $1.20 per mile average pay with the same miles and miles per gallon would equal $7000 gross to the company. Just another reason to not take cheap freight.

I never discussed the occasional load paying $2.00, $2.50, or even $3.25 per mile or the fact that 80,000 miles per year is only 1540 per week average. I think after driving for 10 years I might be able to squeeze in a mile or two more than that on average.

Now are you still with your stand? I believe that I CAN make it. If I listened to people with the I CAN'T attitude like you then I would fail before I started. Luckily for me I have 7 years experience as a grocery store manager of a store grossing over $200,000 per week. ( Harvest Foods ) I was in charge of balancing the income to expense sheets per week. I usually was within .01 to .05 cents + or - each week.

[Dave_0755]

I guess I should have stated in the beginning I'm a redneck from Arkansas. I love a good pissing match now and then.

My father and I didn't have the best relationship in the world. He kicked me out of the home when I was 17. I left home with $500 cash in my pocket and a $800 '84 Chevy Malibu. I lived on the streets, with friends, and even stayed with people I didn't know until I got up on my feet.

I now have a 2 story 1800 sqf 4 bedroom 2 full bath home that is paid for. I also have a 03 Dodge Ram Quad Cab and a 05 Pontiac Grand Prix GT that is paid for as well. I didn't get to where am or have what I have from sitting on my a** and watching the world go by. I might get banned from this site and if so then so be it. But do me and yourself a favor don't pee on my boots and try to convince me it's raining.

[Dave_0755]

I guess I shouldn't let stuff/people get under my skin as much as I do. Honestly it's from years of hearing and being told YOU CAN'T or IT WON'T WORK or DON'T EVEN TRY IT. I have had a tough and rough life. It's been hard but still I love life. I love a good challenge even when there's nothing to prove and no one to prove it to. It's just my personality to do something other than THE NORMAL. I can easily accept a job around here making a ok paycheck, shut my mouth and convince myself I'm happy doing that.

But noooooooo I CAN'T do that. I have to go after the big fish. I have to put myself at the end of the catwalk with both hands tied and 10,000 feet of ocean under my feet and then have to figure a way out. Even when it was my own doing that got me in that condition to begin with.

Then there's always the parade of doubters chiming in. The haters and self righteous that has to throw their .02 cents in even when it's not specifically asked of them. There's not much in the world that a person can count on. I promise you that you can always count on the bigots though. The types that if you don't believe they know it all then just ask me and I'll convince you that I do know it all types. These are the ones that just totally piss me the he!! off. I can never for the life of me understand what makes their clocks tick. I mean really folks are you serious??? My great-grandmother used to chase us out of the house screaming if you don't have anything worthy to say then get outside and shut your mouth. I was raised old school if you can't tell by now.

I tend to see people as an image of myself. Generous, glad to get the chance help another human being and overall a very happy and content person. I guess even though I've had it rough I still feel a need to stretch out a helpful hand to a person in need. That hand has been bitten so many times it should be a nub. Still I reach out to help. I try to not let the bad apples spoil the whole bunch. I just hope to make it in life and I will pray ( which I don't do much of) that you all make it in life as well.

I am calming down a lot honestly and trying to be a better person overall. I remember when I first started truck driving. I missed the road that went into a shipper. I went up to the end of the road I was on and tried to turn around. In doing so a company driver for a large company I won't name pulled out in front of me and called out on the CB. He said hey get your A** to the back of the line. (the trucks was lined up on the street waiting to get loaded.) I said I just needed to turn around and asked nicely for him to let me by. Of course he was one of (those types) he opened his door stared me straight in the face and flew me the bird. I promptly exited my vehicle and began to rearrage his face with my fist his drivers door. When he got back into his truck he moved no problem.

I just think the moral of this rant is. If you would just help a person instead of taking a stand that everyone is out to get a leg up on you, or try make everthing out to be a testicle measuring contest then the world would be a better place.

Of course there will always be the; "I ain't got no panties on." types.

[Justruckin]

Dave,

In regards to the expenses, Rank pretty much nailed it. And when I stated $1.75 to pay the bills I was speaking of the bills to keep the lights on at the home office, before I got paid. And that figure today is probably off by .25 cents the more I think of it.

And I know how you feel regarding people telling you no, it can't be done.

If this were 2005 I would say have at it! But with this current administration in Washington, the coming taxation, etc... I would say this is probably the worst time to go into a high capital intensive business. I beleive the last industry report I read said that we lost 40% of the small trucking companies out there last year.

And then we have the rates. My thinking is this, when the high taxes start to be felt, the first thing to be cut after the layoffs will be the freight rates. It always seems to go like that. And then we have the other carriers and brokers. The game has been rough over the past few years, but I see it intensifying as we head into the next downturn. I see the long knives coming out in regards to rates and freight.

When I hung it up, it was nothing to be quoted .60 a mile for a full load of whatever. I spent more time sitting in truckstops and or dead heading back to the yard than I did moving freight. But, I was highly dependent on the automotive biz, so results will vary around the country. But honestly, at the end I did not find any bright spots, not even Chicago.

But, in regards to starting a business, I am in the process of doing that right now, not trucking. So I do not believe that all is lost. I just don't see it happening again in trucking for many years to come, if ever, as the economy and all of the new regs and new taxation will take there toll on the little guys.

Mike

[Justruckin]

I called a friend at CH Robinson and he had time to give me a couple of rates for a flatbed, both loads require 6' tarps. I put you in Little Rock so figure your dead head of 188 miles into the Blytheville AR to Kalamazoo MI run, for a total of 899 miles.

Blytheville AR to Kalamazoo MI, 711 mi, 899 w/dh, $1100 @ 44,000 lbs. Works out to $1.22 a mile.

Little Rock AR to Flint MI, 922 mi, $1200 @ 44,320 lbs. Works out to roughly $1.30 a mile.

He told me that dry van freight is even worse price wise.

But he did say rates were up, as they usually are this time of year, but did not know for how long.

I hope this helps.

Mike

[Bigmon]

If you have the 500 mile restriction you don't need to get plated for all 48 states. That will save you money right there. You can always buy a trip permit for the once in a year state you go to.

Everyone always mentions health insurance when they go O/O. I doubt you get it for free where you are right now so you're paying for it anyway. Same with food. Laptop and Gps won't break the bank either.

If it all goes South and you lose a few bucks, big deal. At least you're not sitting wondering what if.

[rank]

Hey listen pal, I was just trying to help.

I don't know where you live, don't know what your tax rates are and don't know what kind of truck and trailer you expect to get for $20,000. All I did was take the time to give you a template. Seems you took that template and plugged in your own numbers and you think you can make a go of it. Good. That's all I was trying to do. You are not the first to question my estimates.