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Old 12-25-2009, 01:58 PM
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Default Why did Cat leave the business?

For decades Caterpillar made bulletproof engines for big trucks then suddenly they quit. Why would a company give up what seems like a profitable venture?
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:07 PM
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They feel that cant build an egr engine that is up to their standards and the twin turbo was a big disappointment, so they are giving up
this article is kind of interesting

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=29796

Last edited by Fredog; 12-25-2009 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Flyer View Post
For decades Caterpillar made bulletproof engines for big trucks then suddenly they quit. Why would a company give up what seems like a profitable venture?

emissions


They didnt want to deal with all the heavy BS emissions coming out. They make most of their money on the iron. (bulldozers backhoes etc.) On road motors were a small part of the CAT name. So now they are just sticking to Making iron, boat motors and generators cuz they don't have to deal with the emissions like on road motors do.

Plus with all these truck company's coming out with their own diesels i don't think that help things.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:41 PM
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It is a shame that CAT has stopped manufacturing class 8 engines. I think that it is still the best engine on the market. I think that they got tired of all the government BS. I can't say that I blame them. The irony is that they can still sell their engines anywhere in the world, but the United States. So American truck owners are penalized for another useless federal mandate. If I remember correctly, CAT has entered a joint venture with International Harvester to market their engines.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:14 PM
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If I remember correctly, CAT has entered a joint venture with International Harvester to market their engines.
You are right.:thumbsup:
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN View Post
It is a shame that CAT has stopped manufacturing class 8 engines. I think that it is still the best engine on the market. I think that they got tired of all the government BS. I can't say that I blame them. The irony is that they can still sell their engines anywhere in the world, but the United States. So American truck owners are penalized for another useless federal mandate. If I remember correctly, CAT has entered a joint venture with International Harvester to market their engines.
When I had my truck at the local CAT in Cambridge ON, they told me CAT engines will still be made but under International brand. CAT and Navistar are going to build together a vocational truck for US and Canadian market and it'll be powered by a basically CAT engine.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN View Post
It is a shame that CAT has stopped manufacturing class 8 engines. I think that it is still the best engine on the market. I think that they got tired of all the government BS. I can't say that I blame them. The irony is that they can still sell their engines anywhere in the world, but the United States. So American truck owners are penalized for another useless federal mandate. If I remember correctly, CAT has entered a joint venture with International Harvester to market their engines.
Completely wrong as usual.

Cat quit making truck engines because;

1. They were having huge warranty claims with the ACERT engines.

2. They were losing huge amounts of market share, particularly to Cummins.

3. The combination of 1 and 2 rendered their truck engine operations unprofitable.

4. They were unable to meet 2010 emissions standards with their current (ACERT) technology.

If it was still "the best engine on the market" they wouldn't quit making them. CAT engines have always been heavy, gotten crappy fuel mileage and been absurdly expensive to repair. I used to hate dealing with the local dealer for parts & service (no other option) because of what I referred to as their "cattitude"

They cannot sell truck engines everywhere else in the world except the U.S. We now have a global emission standard among all developed countries. Every other truck engine manufacturer is able to meet the current standard, CAT can't. CAT is not "being penalized by another useless federal mandate," they lack the technical expertise to meet a global one.

My understanding of the relationship between CAT & Navistar is that CAT will market a line of vocational trucks aimed at the construction industry that will be powered by Navistar manufactured engines, not the other way around.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:42 PM
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I remember hearing about is the emissions and that they had some problems with the new acert engines. Paccar and International are coming out with their own engines and Freightliner already has their own engine. I don't recall whether this happened prior to CAT announcing that they would cease manufacturing class 8 engines for the domestic market. I always heard how poor their fuel mileage was until I bought a couple of them. I have gotten about as good fuel mileage with them as I did with Detroit. Fuel mileage has as much or more to do with how you drive than the engines. I have consistently gotten over 6 mpg with my CAT engines. One averages 6.91 with me driving. That isn't too bad. By the way, for the most part emissions is not a worldwide concern. Just look at China, India and some of the other developing countries. They don't seem very concerned. It is primarily the U.S. market that restricts emissions so much. Just another useless EPA mandate designed to restrict competition and destroy another U.S. manufacturer. These mandates have reduced fuel mileage in most cases which causes trucks to use more fuel for the sake of emissions. It seems to me that the more fuel you burn the more pollutants you put into the air. It seems to be counterproductive. Of course, no one said that you had to be intelligent to work for the government.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:30 PM
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While it was related to emissions, it was simply due to the route they took. ACERT engines are not known for being good on fuel. Massive warranty claims, plus many fleets had trucks equipped with 08 compliant engines parked against the fence. Back in 2004 Cat had around a 40-45% market share. By 08 that dropped to about 15%. Coupled with the economic slowdown they were selling a fraction of the engines they used to. Even before they pulled the plug, Volvo was selling more motors than they were. So there's no way you can blame EPA for that, EPA is just a scapegoat. Paccar was even heavily leaning towards Cummins well before that.

They were too damn stubborn in 03 saying they never had to use EGR. 08 they started using it. Cat also dragged their asses, and were the last ones complying to the 03/04 regs.

It's simply the choices they made, and their ass-dragging when it came to compliance. They'd rather sue then figure out how to fix the problem. Kind of like Navistar is doing now. Makes one wonder...
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:58 PM
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I thought that it was Navistar who developed their own engine and was going to allow CAT to put their yellow paint on them. From what you are saying, it is right the opposite? In any case, I wish that they could have gotten something worked out to keep the CAT class 8 engines on the market. I do recall them having some fuel mileage and other problems for a while with those dual turbo's. Man...that would be some serious money if both turbo's blew at the same time. I paid over $1,500 just for one turbo about 2 years ago. If it had been a Cuimmins or Detroit the cost would have been quite a bit less or so the parts guy told me.

Yes, I believe Paccar had been pushing more Cummins engines of late. I am sure that really impacted CAT's business. It is almost like CAT just gave up on the business rather than find a way to compete. With Paccar coming out with their engine, Volvo pushing their engine and Freightliner having Mercedes and Detroit, it would surely have diminished their market.

Perhaps the best way they can compete is to put their brand on their own truck. I actually read something about that a few months ago. I don't recall all the particulars. Maybe someone else remembers reading something about it?
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