[GMAN]

Originally Posted by robertt

GMAN, I gotta say, there isn't a whole lot in this world I would back down from but a brain fight with you over something in the trucking industry wouldn't interest me in the least. I know you have been in this buisness a whole lot longer than me but your reasonings and opinions blow me out of the water sometimes. I think it's pretty cool the number of people you have helped out here. Just my .02 worth.

That is very kind of you to say, robertt.

[Tadpolly66]

Thanks to all that replied to this post offering insight and advice regarding the issue. I am still undecided at this point as to what to do. I have two weeks off starting Monday, and the phone calls and emails will be flying I'm sure.

The bottom line is if I cant pay myself and turn a small profit after the fact, whats the point? With the additional responsibilities and expenses..........OUCH!

I want to look at companies like Landstar, CH Robinson, etc. These have established frieght and customer bases, and may be easier for me to transition to due to their structure.

From the responses to this post and others, I'm assuming $1.20 mile is unrealistic at this time. Would this be true with the above stated companies as well? Is the economy that bad that van O/O are making the same or less than company drivers after expenses?


Best Regards,
Tad

[GMAN]

Rates will be better if you run your own authority (usually) since you will keep the part they normally receive. No matter what you may hear, nearly all of the major carriers use the loadboards or brokers to some extent or another. Few carriers are able to use 100% of their own shippers. I know of Landstar trucks that have hauled CH Robinson, Schneider and JB Hunt loads. There are other carriers who do the same. This is not a new event. They have been doing this for many years. It isn't that the larger carriers don't have any of their own shippers or freight, but it is difficult for any of them to sufficiently service each shipper. Some of them only use a broker to get their trucks back to their shippers.

CH Robinson is a broker. They don't have any trucks running under their authority. Landstar and others are carriers who are also brokers. If you have your own authority then you can broker freight from any broker or haul for shippers direct.

I called about some van loads this morning. I had a few offer less than $1/mile going into Florida. If I booked this load as a carrier and put it on an owner operator truck then that owner operator would have less than $0.75/mile. That isn't enough to run the truck. Even a $1/mile is not enough. I would say on average that van rates are less than 1.20/mile running your authority. If you lease to a carrier you are likely to be running for $1/mile or less unless you can afford to do a lot of sitting. If you can wait for about a year then rates will be up considerably and capacity will be down. Rates should be very good next year. Thousands more owner operators and many more carriers will not be able to survive these low rates. Carriers will be in the drivers seat once again. Shippers and brokers are enjoying the current cheap rates. They will be begging for trucks next year and be forced to pay a premium to get them. At this point it is a matter of survival to get through this year.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Tadpolly66

From the responses to this post and others, I'm assuming $1.20 mile is unrealistic at this time. Would this be true with the above stated companies as well? Is the economy that bad that van O/O are making the same or less than company drivers after expenses?


Best Regards,
Tad

Rates can vary widely from one freight lane to another. If you lease to Landstar or broker from someone such as CH Robinson the rates will still vary according to the lanes in which you run and the time of year.

[LOAD IT]

Tadpolly, Where are you based and are you married to the idea of running dryvans?

[Auggiedoggy]

Gman, not to question your knowledge and experience, why do you say that next year the brokers and shippers will be begging for trucks

[GMAN]

Because many of the cheap freight haulers will be out business, Auggiedoggy. You will never get rid of all the cheap freight haulers, but there should be a significant reduction by next year. The economy should pick up next year and there should be a shortage of trucks. Fewer trucks should result in higher rates. Those who have pushed for the really cheap rates will not be able to find trucks to haul their freight. Had they been willing to pay a fair rate this year many of those carriers and owner operators who have gone out of business could have survived and rates would be more stable with a turn around in the economy. Now it will be time to pay the piper. Carriers will be in a much stronger bargaining position to demand and receive much higher rates. Shippers and brokers will be forced to pay higher rates if they want to move their freight. It is basic supply and demand at work.

[Tadpolly66]

Originally Posted by LOAD IT

Tadpolly, Where are you based and are you married to the idea of running dryvans?

Cleveland, Ohio and no, I'm not married.

[BanditsCousin]

I think LOADIT meant are you hell bent on hauling dry vans.

[Tadpolly66]

Originally Posted by BanditsCousin

I think LOADIT meant are you hell bent on hauling dry vans.

Just trying to inject some humor into the situation. No I'm not bent on driving only dry van. In fact, I'm considering obtaining additional endorsements to my CDL to expand my marketability and increase my range of experience in this industry. I feel by only holding class A I'm really limiting myself and my opportunities. I'm also considering buying a couple of trailers and having someone pull them, although the same factors being discussed here would apply to that situation as well.

I couldn't help but notice how many EMPTY flatbeds I saw running between Cleveland & Syracuse yesterday. I must have saw at least 15, and these were just the ones I saw. How many vans are running empty as well?

Maybe its just not the best time to get into this business as an owner. Maybe I should get into tanker or something else for a year and learn that aspect as a company driver. At this point I'm leaning strongly towards NOT purchasing a truck at this time. I see alot of blood and tears down that road, at least right now. The freight rates & availibility I'm seeing and hearing are not conducive to having $700-1000/month truck payments to deal with.

I realize that being an owner and running your own trucks is not going to be a walk in the park, even by my unexperienced calculations and a paid off truck, best case scenario is you're only going to clear .5-.15 cents per mile putting a driver into the truck, and this is before taxes even, so it's not really "clear". In the current market, it may be even worse. I would have to have three trucks or a combination of trucks/trailers to eventually make any substantial dollars.
I haven't completed my research on having only trailers pulled by leased on trucks, but if I would do the standard 20% on some trailers being pulled by a leased on truck, I can't imagine making more than .08-.13 cents per mile after expenses and BEFORE taxes.

My eventual goal is not to become rich, but to be home more for my wife and son. I have no illusions about "getting rich quick", I just want to have enough to live on without financial worries. We live frugally, so that "magic $$$ number" for me may be lower than most. For me it represents a dream of being able to call your own shots, with the ability during the day to take 5 minutes off and hug your wife , or go outside and throw the baseball around with your son, and not running the rat race every day. To me that means more than the money.

Before I started driving, I worked in the automotive world. I started in 1989 when I left the military, with the last 14 years of my tenure as a manager. After losing all three jobs to bankruptcies, I decided to do drive. With the current state of the automotive world, I think that was a great decision. I will not go back, and will put in whatever effort it takes to succeed in this business. If not this year, than next. It's looking more and more like next. :surrender:

I can work as hard as I want, but if the frieght dollars aren't there, they're not there. I can't make them appear. I agree with Gman, I certainly can't operate the truck for a buck a mile, I would be living in the truck and probably calling the bank within 3-6 months to come and pick up the truck. I love to play poker and gamble, but I try to get my $$$ in the middle when I have the best of it. Right now I seem to holding a flush to the other guys full house. Not a good place to be! When I take risks they're well calculated ones.

This board is a great learning tool for anyone interested in this business. I have picked up alot of things since coming here, and I thank all those that take the time to respond all the posts here, including mine. The willingness here to share knowledge and experience far exceeds alot of forums, trucking and otherwise. I continue to welcome any and all comments and advice.

I have the rest of this week to research and make my decision, so we'll see what happens.

Best Regards,

Tad