I have friends who are educators and this isn't something that is just happening in Tennessee. The problem these educators have had is that they were forced to pass students even though they were not qualified or done the necessary work. The educational system has been teaching a lot of things other than the basics. When these students get to college some cannot read or do basic math. The main two area where there seems to be a deficit is English and Math. Some of these schools will teach children how to have sex but fail to teach them how to do basic math and properly structure a sentence. I am talking about the public schools, not the private or parochial. If you look at the major socialist countries this is how they seem to gain power. They dumb down the schools and then reteach them according to socialist principals. Hitler, Lenin and Mao all did it in their respective countries.

 

Tell me how a kid gets a high enough SAT or ACT score to get into college without being able to read or write. There are plenty of kids that don't get a good education, I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on schools. In my experience, you can trace it back to the home...every single time.

You bring up private schools. Ever notice how private schools in general do much better at educating kids and that parents and students compete to gain admittance? Guess how much say the parents and community have over how a private school teaches...zilch. The school and teachers do what they do best and if a student or parent doesn't like it, they're welcome to take a hike. Maybe that's the problem with public schools. Everybody thinks they know how to teach kids better than the teacher :roll:

The single most important factor in how well kids learn, shown time and time again, is class size or teacher to student ratio. The single biggest influence on class size is money. Everybody complains about the schools and yet they all bristle at the notion of paying for them. It's only going to get worse as the Boomers age. We'll have the richest portion of the population thinking they shouldn't have to pay for schools since they don't get any benefit from them.

By the way, you mentioned schools that don't give grades. I only know of a handful of universities that operate this way. And it's not because I'm not aware, there just aren't many that do. Almost every one of those schools is considered and elite liberal arts university and churns out some of the most sought after students in the country. And they're not easy to get into.

 

I don't think the blame rests solely on the school system. I think it is primarily the parents responsibility to see that their children receive a quality education. The problem is that many parents today don't want to be bothered by having to help their children with homework and meet with teachers. They DEMAND that their child be promoted so that he isn't embarrassed by being held back. They don't want teachers to discipline their little brats. Parents have shucked their responsibility. My mother saw to it that I knew my "ABC's" and could count to "100" before I entered the first grade. I started school when I was 5 years old. I don't recall us having kindergarten or preschool at that time. My mother was always helpful when needed and made sure that we did our part of getting an education. She was always at home when we got there after school. Getting a college education was always expected by my parents. It was never considered an option to not get a good education.

Money won't solve the problem of a poor education. Parents getting involved in their children's lives will help more than anything. We spend more on education today than ever. Schools have gotten away from teaching the basics and replaced it with feel good curriculum. School systems are overladen with beauracracies. Taxes are nearly always raised to benefit education, but those monies are often diverted to other projects. In reality, teachers are pretty well compensated for their time. While the annual salary may seem less to some, keep in mind that these people don't work 12 months out of the year. They usually have summers off along with spring and winter breaks and numerous holidays. There are those within some public school systems who are paid in excess of $50M/year plus all the benefits.

And I don't recall it being me who mentioned not giving grades in some colleges. We live in a competitive world. In the business world we normally measure success by how much money or success we achieve. In school it is our grades. Those who excel earn A's. Those who slide by receive D's or F's. Not everyone is a high achiever.

 

You're right, I apologize. I misread your statement.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying about parent involvement.

As far as funding goes. We spend more on education from a gross perspective, but adjusted for inflation on a per pupil basis, spending has declined for the most part. Teacher compensation is subjective. You may think $50,000 is a lot for what teachers do. In my area, someone earning that would be struggling. The fact is that many areas struggle to attract qualified teachers. That's a sure indication that teachers aren't paid enough. If they were, the salary combined with the other perks you mentioned would attract plenty of qualified candidates.

But my original point still remains, a kid that wants to get a good education today can get a better one than what was offered 30 years ago. The problem may lie in the possibility that getting an education doesn't carry the same priority it used to. Therefore, more kids leave the system undereducated. Not because the resources weren't available, but because they didn't take advantage of them.

And the students coming out of the socialist countries still kick our butts, on average :lol:

 

Someone sent this to me a few months ago and I kept it. You might find it interesting.





Subject: 8th Grade


Only an 8th Grade Education


What it took to get an 8th grade education in 1895...

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they
only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have
passed the 8th grade in 1895?

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, Kansas, USA
. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley
Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by the Salina
Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895

Grammar (Time, one hour)

1 . Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no
modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of
"lie,""play," and "run."
5. Define case; illustrate each case.
6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of
punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that
you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)

1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many
bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it worth at
50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary
levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for
incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7
percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at
$20 per metre?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance
of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)

1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus .
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas .
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell , Lincoln ,
Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800,
1849, 1865.
Orthography (Time, one hour)
[Do we even know what this is??]

1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography,
etymology, syllabication
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph,
subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.'
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two
exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word:
bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and
name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell,
rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight,
fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate
pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)

1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa , Denver ,
Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco
..
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same
latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to
the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the incl ination of
the earth.

Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.

Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new
meaning, doesn't it?!

 

That's very interesting Gman....I would have been saying goodbye to my friends and hello "again" to my 8th grade teacher that fall....as I would have failed miserably at that test [/b]

 

It would be interesting to see what the current requirements are for graduation.

 

Seventeen of the nation's 50 largest cities had high school graduation rates lower than 50 percent, with the lowest graduation rates reported in Detroit, Michigan; Indianapolis, Indiana and Cleveland, Ohio, according to a report released Tuesday.

Nationally, about 70 percent of U.S. students graduate on time with a regular diploma and about 1.2 million students drop out annually.

"When more than 1 million students a year drop out of high school, it's more than a problem, it's a catastrophe," said former Secretary of State Colin Powell, founding chair of the alliance.

Nationally, 62 percent of community college students enroll unprepared for college-level course work, according to a two-year study that began in 2005.

In 2001, nearly one-third of first-year students in the United States were required to take remedial classes.

Does this tell you our education system is failing? Note the increase in 4 years of remedial courses required to enter community college.

 

It is much easier for students to drop out when the government will send them a check in the form of welfare and provide them with subsidized housing. When I grew up we worked for what we had. We attended school and many went on to college. Some attended vocational school. Some started at minimum wage jobs and worked their way up to a better paying position. Regardless, we all worked and earned our own way. We knew that if we wanted to get ahead we had to either get a decent education or training to be successful.

We have since allowed the government to get more and more involved in our lives and essentially kill our educational system. When people are educated you tend to be more aware. Instead of teaching basics such as arithmetic and English, students are taught how to NOT hurt someone's feelings or how to have sex. The result is a younger, more promiscuous student body than cannot read or properly structure a sentence, much less do basic math. It should be no surprise that these children have the highest rate of STD's and illigitimate births. At a time when these kids should be getting a good education they are having babies and collecting welfare checks. Since little is expected, little is given. Government education has failed these children and parents have also failed them.

There was a time when the U.S. had the best educational system in the world. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.

 

I think all of us would be keeping you company!!! lol