[solo379]

Originally Posted by person

If there was a "shut down" what exactly would be the stated purpose "We are shutting down in hopes of............."

Like........ We are shutting down in hopes of making supply and demand go away. :shock:
Or.... We are shutting down for the purpose of trying to get as much money as the more wealthy operators who are gifted and successful in their efforts.
Or.....We are shutting down because the free market system can be improved on.

Yeh. Like how would a shut down change anything? Like the shippers would all say "Oh gee, I guess we really DO need trucks!" ?? They already know this and they are aware of the supply and demand and are getting the best rate they can.

What you are saying, is making sense! Therefore;-wouldn't be accepted, nor understood, by most!
You on the other hand, could be criticized for "negativity"! :P :lol:

[Dejanh]

Am vacationing in the Alps beggining Dec-10....

I wont start it up untill probably next March or so..

[Dejanh]

Government is NOT OUR FRIEND!! They are part of the problem. We could be less dependent on foreign oil if government would get out of the way.

In Europe, governments surcharge diesel fuel used for commercial purposes to a point where it is adjusted for inflation and current prices, which inflation represents.

Over there, when a truck goes to strike so does a farmer and dont you dare trying to run your own during the strike.

France recently had a strike of truckerts and farmers for a while, they 'bout shut everything down untill thje government there decided to take care of the extra cost.

http://www.iht.com/articles/1997/11/03/truck.t_0.php , this is the one from 97

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/20102.stm

Thats how you do things over there..

,,All 13 French oil refineries and half of the 400 gas storage depots were blocked by masses of semi-trailers, buses, and private cars, forcing the closure of half of Francés 18,000 gas stations. Half of the country, including major cities such as Bordeaux and Marseille, was without gas.''

[Ridge Runner]

I think I may have been mixing apples and oranges. I assumed that everybody got a rate PLUS the FSC. Some of the talk on this thread was about a strike to bring the price of fuel down. If that happens then the FSC goes down as well.

Thank you Solo379 for answering my question with a direct answer. You proved my point in a way. The price of fuel can go to $10.00/Gal. and he will still be in good shape because of the FSC as long as the rate he is getting stays the same. In this case the price of fuel is NOT the reason O/Os are not making any money.

Now the other side of the coin ( oranges ). If the "rate" includes the FSC and is just a flat rate to move the frieght then again it is the rate NOT the price of fuel.

All I was trying to get at was to strike to lower the fule price is the wrong thing to do.

[GMAN]

Government cannot solve this problem by subsidizing the trucking industry. Personally, I don't want government to pay me anything. When government gives money with one hand they are taking it out of your back pocket with the other. Only individuals and companies using innovative thinking can solve this problem. We don't have a supply problem so much as a perception problem. I can't think of a single problem that government has solved. On the other hand, I can think of numerous instances where they have made things more difficult or complex by their interference. Just look what happens when they simplified our tax returns. The more government simplifies our taxes the more complex they become. :shock: You see, government has actually been responsible, to a great extent, for what is happening in the marketplace. By not allowing U.S. oil companies to drill more wells and build more refineries they have actually encouraged our dependence of foreign oil and higher prices. Their policies have discouraged innovative thinking. If oil refineries were blocked by trucks then it could certainly have an impact. However, I am not sure the outcome would be as you envision. Strikes may work for the short term, but we are looking at a long term solution. Competition will solve this problem. Imagine what would happen if an alternative energy source could be developed and mass distributed for $0.05/gallon or equivalent? The world oil markets would crumble overnight. There would not even need to be a product....just the hint of a new cheap energy source being introduced into the market. In previous years, oil prices have dropped when there was a hint of competition such as bio diesel or ethanol. I don't remember which right now. I recall media pundits saying that a threshold of something like $28/barrel would be needed to economically produce an alternative source such as ethanol. Once prices ebbed downward the alternative source was considered unprofitable. Now look what has happened. We have oil pushing $100/barrel. The ONLY reason oil is this high is lack of competition. If an inexpensive alternative source were available then the oil prices would drop like a rock. Just imagine what would happen if we had an alternative which didn't pollute and was a fraction of current costs. These dictators would crumble overnight. 8)

[Dejanh]

Mike, current prices have nothing to do with the price of berrel on the market. Europeans have been paying for the same barrel like us but the end price has been 3 times higher than what we pay here, over 8$pg.
Remember when barrel was 72, but price about the same as now when barell is at a 100. Someone is fixing the prices and making a huge profit.
Look at the diesel price in comperison with the gas, it doesnt make any sence.

I think our government has play in all of this, higher the price, higher the tax revenue, maybe thats why we ,,cannot'' make a car that goes 36mpg when Japanese have been making them for years.
I still dont know why we dont have more refineries being built when demand is strong, it would only make sence. I think the answer is in ,, we dont want to'' so that the prices stay the way they are.

And the answer is not in oil, it is in other sources of energy and we have technology to develop it but we arent.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Ridge Runner

I think I may have been mixing apples and oranges. I assumed that everybody got a rate PLUS the FSC. Some of the talk on this thread was about a strike to bring the price of fuel down. If that happens then the FSC goes down as well.

Thank you Solo379 for answering my question with a direct answer. You proved my point in a way. The price of fuel can go to $10.00/Gal. and he will still be in good shape because of the FSC as long as the rate he is getting stays the same. In this case the price of fuel is NOT the reason O/Os are not making any money.

Now the other side of the coin ( oranges ). If the "rate" includes the FSC and is just a flat rate to move the freight then again it is the rate NOT the price of fuel.

All I was trying to get at was to strike to lower the fule price is the wrong thing to do.

The fsc doesn't always reach the owner of the truck. Some brokers keep some or all of the fsc. Landstar is supposed to start taking their cut of the fsc as part of the rate. Most of the time when I get a rate, it is supposed to include the fsc. The fsc is only a band-aid to cover the real problem. We need higher rates. Some are getting them, others are not. We still have market forces at work. As long as freight moves for $1/mile there is no need to pay $2/mile. Carriers who have a lot of owner operators will sometimes take the fsc off the top and pass that along to the owner and then take their share off the balance. I think most carriers are doing that in one way or another.

Many carriers bid on loads annually. Regardless of what happens in the marketplace, rates are fixed. That can be good or bad, depending on what is going on with the economy. Those who lease to these carriers can have some protections. For those of us who run our own authority, we simply need to get sufficiently higher enough rates to cover the increased cost of fuel and make a decent profit. All the fsc does is make the shipper feel as though they aren't paying a higher rate. When you break the fsc out from the rate it seem like the rate is lower. :roll:

[Orangetxguy]

There are some shippers whom won't pay the full surcharge, as it is posted by the DOE website.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

Mike, current prices have nothing to do with the price of berrel on the market. Europeans have been paying for the same barrel like us but the end price has been 3 times higher than what we pay here, over 8$pg.

Much of what Europe pays for fuel is taxes. We think our taxes are high, but they are much higher in Europe. That is what happens with socialism. It costs a lot of money for the government to give people everything.

Originally Posted by Dejanh

Remember when barrel was 72, but price about the same as now when barell is at a 100. Someone is fixing the prices and making a huge profit.
Look at the diesel price in comperison with the gas, it doesnt make any sence.

I think our government has play in all of this, higher the price, higher the tax revenue, maybe thats why we ,,cannot'' make a car that goes 36mpg when Japanese have been making them for years.
I still dont know why we dont have more refineries being built when demand is strong, it would only make sence. I think the answer is in ,, we dont want to'' so that the prices stay the way they are.

And the answer is not in oil, it is in other sources of energy and we have technology to develop it but we arent.

I still remember when oil was $2/barrel. The reason we don't have more exploration and building of refineries is government regulations. Our government will not allow more refineries to be built. I was listening to one of the ministers from Saudi Arabia a few years ago. He stated that they were willing to build a refinery in the U.S. but would not be allowed to do so. I don't think that is a good idea, either, but it would be good for U.S. oil companies to be able to build more refineries.

I think the answer is more in alternative fuel or power sources. We just have to develop the will to do it. We could accomplish a lot more if our government would simply get out of our business. Regulations have killed many industries in the U.S. That is the primary reason so many companies have moved abroad. If trucking could move abroad and still operate in the U.S. it could save billions. :P

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I still remember when oil was $2/barrel :shock: . The reason we don't have more exploration and building of refineries is government regulations. Our government will not allow more refineries to be built. I was listening to one of the ministers from Saudi Arabia a few years ago. He stated that they were willing to build a refinery in the U.S. but would not be allowed to do so. I don't think that is a good idea, either, but it would be good for U.S. oil companies to be able to build more refineries.

I think the answer is more in alternative fuel or power sources. We just have to develop the will to do it. We could accomplish a lot more if our government would simply get out of our business. Regulations have killed many industries in the U.S. That is the primary reason so many companies have moved abroad. If trucking could move abroad and still operate in the U.S. it could save billions. :P

Remember when diesel was 9 cents a gallon?? Wasn't line haul then $0.80 per mile??

Nuclear Energy for electricity. Stop burning Natural gas to make it!!!

Instead of fallow ground, pay farmers to plant soy beans, peanuts and corn!!!! (bio-fuel)