[Blacksheep]

http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R..._wants_out.htm



Interesting article.

[GMAN]

I find it interesting that the Mexican carriers don't want to come in to the U.S. any more than we want to go there. :shock:

[Cam]

Granting such authority must first be tested as part of a pilot program;
The pilot program must comply with the requirements of Section 350 of the 2002 appropriations legislation and the requirements of Section 31315(c) of Title 49, United States Code, related to the pilot programs; and
Simultaneous and comparable authority to operate within Mexico is made available to motor carriers domiciled in the United States. Murray submitted the amendment to the Senate Committee on Appropriations and it was accepted on a voice vote – with no opposition.

The only discussion related to the amendment was brought up by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-CA, one of the co-sponsors of the amendment. The amendment was also co-sponsored by Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-ND.

Feinstein discussed the fairness – or lack thereof – of allowing Mexico-domiciled motor carriers to operate within the U.S., while the Mexican government isn’t ready to allow U.S. motor carriers access to Mexico.

Thanks for the article, Blacksheep. I'm just now catching up. All my understanding is based on a little knowledge of economics and general awareness of the trucking industry. I can not see any scenario in which American drivers will do anything significantly in Mexico. It would help to identify the cast of characters:

*Multi-national corporations like the automakers and their shareholders that want to reduce their transportation costs

*Large American trucking companies that will want to set up shop in Mexico so that it is they who profit from the Mexicans driving in the US

*Mexican trucking companies which most likely don't have the money to set up the military-base style 'trucking maquiladoras' that would be needed to operate efficiently and in compliance with US laws. (I say military-base style, you know, otherwise, they even steal gladhand seals!!!) :lol:

*The Mexican governments which should get an infusion of cash for roads and such as the American companies move in. Further, the increased trade means more jobs and more tax revenue.

*Mexicans who might see that 14cpm that Allan5oh mention jump up to.. up to...20cpm?

*American truckers who won't be doing any significant driving in Mexico and won't be pulling some of the north-south loads we are now pulling.

*The American public which is really only going to care if we start to hear about Mexican drivers crashing into cars.

Now according to the article, in addition to American truckers, which party doesn't want Mexican drivers coming up into the states :wink:

Allan5oh, Gman, anyone else, who exactly is pushing the politicians in the States? For one thing, if American trucking companies aren't allowed to operate in Mexico (hiring the Mexicans themselves and sending them up here), how are they ever going to do it compliant with US safety regulations?

[allan5oh]

http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=59105

For those interested, new restrictions are being tabled.

further in the article:

One of the most important provisions, he said, would require the federal government to certify that when a Mexican trucker is pulled over, police could pull up the same kind of background information on the Mexican as they could on an American driver. Hunter said that should include criminal violations such as drug convictions.

The thing with that is, they wouldn't be allowed in the country anyways. Any convictions = denial at port of entry. So this is in fact a moot point.

[GMAN]

You assume that the Mexican government keeps the same records as in the U.S. Rules can be different when you cross the Southern border.

[Red Clay Rambler]

Absolutely right, GMAN. Many of the claims made by those who want Mexican trucks here assume WAY too much in terms of record-keeping, regulations, etc. in Mexico, I have to laugh at how naive they are (or, maybe they think we are naive :wink: )

My wife is from Peru, a country who's culture is similar in some ways to Mexico. (however, NEVER call her Mexican or feel the wrath! :evil: ) There is nothing you can't "buy" there in terms of false credentials, licenses, documents, etc. There is no crime that you cannot bribe your way out of if you have enough money. There is nothing that won't be stolen from you if you're not careful, sometimes if you are. Rules/regulations are a joke, laughed at by anyone who can circumvent them. The police ask for bribes right off the bat if they stop you. Imagine the poor American trucker who's company sends him into Mexico. Any cop who stops him will think he hit the bribe jackpot $$$$. My wife has remarked many times at how orderly we are here in the US, how most people here basically follow the rules. That way of thinking doesn't exist in most of Latin America.

Any Mexican trucker with 50 bucks can have any license or driving/criminal record that he wants.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by Red Clay Rambler

Absolutely right, GMAN. Many of the claims made by those who want Mexican trucks here assume WAY too much in terms of record-keeping, regulations, etc. in Mexico, I have to laugh at how naive they are (or, maybe they think we are naive :wink: )

My wife is from Peru, a country who's culture is similar in some ways to Mexico. (however, NEVER call her Mexican or feel the wrath! :evil: ) There is nothing you can't "buy" there in terms of false credentials, licenses, documents, etc. There is no crime that you cannot bribe your way out of if you have enough money. There is nothing that won't be stolen from you if you're not careful, sometimes if you are. Rules/regulations are a joke, laughed at by anyone who can circumvent them. The police ask for bribes right off the bat if they stop you. Imagine the poor American trucker who's company sends him into Mexico. Any cop who stops him will think he hit the bribe jackpot $$$$. My wife has remarked many times at how orderly we are here in the US, how most people here basically follow the rules. That way of thinking doesn't exist in most of Latin America.

Any Mexican trucker with 50 bucks can have any license or driving/criminal record that he wants.

Good post. That's a vivid description of the situation on the ground. I think large American companies operating in Mexico sending Mexican drivers north would work. I don't think Mexican companies can pull it off without a lot of compliance issues.

[PackRatTDI]

Originally Posted by Red Clay Rambler

Any Mexican trucker with 50 bucks can have any license or driving/criminal record that he wants.

You can buy the same kind of fake documents in any large metropolitan area in the US.

[silvan]

Originally Posted by PackRatTDI

You can buy the same kind of fake documents in any large metropolitan area in the US.

That's true, but working with fake documents is not a way of life for most people in this country, whereas everything in Mexico revolves around the bribe, and nothing can be trusted. He who pays the right price can have anything, drugs, sex, slaves, you name it. Their political system is so corrupt it boggles the mind how their citizens put up with that crap, and it's not just Mexico.

Of course, the other side of that coin is that the average guy off the street probably isn't hiding a criminal record, and he's just paying the bribes he needs to survive life on the streets of Oaxaca. If he doesn't appear to have a criminal record, he probably doesn't. But why is this guy wanting to drive a truck to El Norte anyway, where he doesn't speak the language, where all the road signs have distances written in the wrong units, where the weather is cold and wet, where fuel is extremely expensive, and everywhere he goes, people are threatening to kill him for taking away jobs from estadounidenses?

The average José off the street probably doesn't want to drive his truck into the US, and I would be suspicious of the motives of anyone who did want to make the trip. Smuggling drugs, smuggling people, aiming to come north, get across the border, and stay.

What can Mexicans do for work up here? Most of them are doing construction, agriculture, or housekeeping. You're all truck drivers. Do you like construction, picking tobacco, cleaning up after rich snotty people? No. You want to drive a truck, don't you? I expect they do too. They're probably at the top of their own economic food chain for the best paying job a working man can get, and that kind of work would not appeal to them any more than it would to us. So what would they want to do if they came north and stayed north? I expect they'd want to drive.

I think the Mexicans who want to drive in the US are already here. I run into Mexican truck drivers all the time. "¿Dónde está la policía?" on the radio at least once a day, on the east coast, a jillion miles away from Mexico.

I'm just thinking freely. The points I'm making don't necessarily flow from one to the other in order to make a rational argument about anything, and I'm not sure what I think about this issue.

I do think I will go googling around and see if I can dig up what Mexicans have to say about this subject in Spanish. If I find anything, I'll be back.

[silvan]

Originally Posted by silvan

If I find anything, I'll be back.

http://www.laopinion.com/primerapagina/?rkey=00000000000001262960

Con siete años de retraso y de una manera muy limitada, camiones de carga mexicanos empezarán a transitar por el territorio de Estados Unidos más allá del área fronteriza dentro de unos dos o tres meses.

Seven years late, and in a very limited manner, Mexican cargo trucks will begin to move beyond the border region in the US within two or three months.

No ha sido un camino fácil: el acceso a las carreteras estadounidenses para camiones mexicanos fue una promesa del Tratado de Libre Comercio de América del Norte (TLC) firmado en 1993 y debió ocurrir hacia el año 2000, pero se estancó en discusiones, divergencias y demandas judiciales.

This hasn't been an easy road. Mexican access to US highways was one of the promises of NAFTA, signed in 1993, and should have occurred by the year 2000, but it was stalled with discussions, divergences, and judicial demands.

Finalmente, los gobiernos de EU y México anunciaron el viernes pasado un programa piloto, que abrirá las carreteras y autopistas estadounidenses a unas 100 compañías camioneras mexicanas, siempre y cuando se sometan a una auditoría de seguridad llevada a cabo por el gobierno federal de Estados Unidos.

Finally, the governments of the US and Mexico announced a pilot program last Friday [27th of February], which will open US highways to 100 Mexican trucking companies, if and when they submit to a security audit performed by the federal government of the US.


That was February. Everything current is reading like this one:

http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?id_nota=292854

La Casa Blanca afirmó que el presidente George W. Bush vetará una ley de gastos de guerra que, entre otros elementos, bloquea el acceso libre de los camiones mexicanos a las carreteras nacionales.

The White House confirmed that President George W. Bush will veto a war spending bill that, among other elements, blocks free access of Mexican trucks to US national highways.El Senado de EU debate desde el lunes una medida de gastos suplementarios de guerra por unos 125.000 millones de dólares que, además de pedir la retirada de las tropas de Irak en 2008, bloquea la puesta en marcha de un programa piloto para la libre circulación de los camiones mexicanos.

The US Senate has been debating a $125 million supplemental war spending measure since Monday, which, in addition to demanding the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq in 2008, blocks the onset of a pilot program for the free circulation of Mexican trucks.

La enmienda para bloquear los fondos al programa piloto fue aprobada la semana pasada, en lo que fue una victoria política para los sindicalistas y grupos cívicos que se oponen a la entrada de los camiones mexicanos.

The proposal to block the pilot program was approved last week, in what was a political victory for the ?unions? and civic groups that oppose the entry of Mexican trucks into the US.

En un documento de cuatro páginas, la Oficina de Gestión y Presupuesto (OMB) de la Casa Blanca criticó varios de los elementos del proyecto de ley y reiteró que el presidente Bush lo vetará si llega a su despacho.

In a four-page document, the OMB of the White House criticized various elements of the legislative measure, and reiterated that President Bush will veto it if it arrives at his desk.

"La Administración se opone enérgicamente al texto que pretende bloquear la aplicación de las cláusulas para el tránsito transfronterizo de camiones", como lo requiere el Tratado de Libre Comercio de Norteamérica (TLCAN), dijo la OMB.
"La falta de cumplimiento de esta obligación internacional perjudicaría a los exportadores, consumidores y camioneros de EU", no sólo a México, argumentó.

The Administration energetically opposes the text, which attempts to block the application of the clauses that bring about cross-border trucking, as required by NAFTA, said the OMB.

Según el Gobierno de EU, desde mediados de la década de los años 90, el porcentaje de camiones de carga mexicanos que fallan en las inspecciones de seguridad estadounidenses ha bajado del 59 al 21 por ciento en la actualidad.

According to the US Government, since the middle of the '90s, the percentage of Mexican trucks that failed American security inspections has decreased from 59% to 21% at the current time.

(Translated in a huge hurry. I'm on my way to dinner. I'll re-read and edit later if necessary.)