[GMAN]

Solo, I do have a CAT dealer locally who has been fair with me. They have done work and while not cheap, have done what they say and have helped me out in a pinch.

CAM, unfortunately, when some of these dealerships finish in less time that is shown in the book, they don't discount the price. Some of these mechanics work on percentage or commission. The more revenue they bring in the more they stick in their pocket. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing, but I do have a problem with a dealership who milks customers for every penny. It is dishonest to charge for hours not worked. If their book says that it will take 10 hours to do a job and it only takes 8, then I think we should be charged 8 hours. To charge for more time than is spend is criminal. It is FRAUD. Unfortunately, it is widespread among many dealerships. Not only trucks, but auto dealerships. I used to do most all of my own work. I do very little any more. It takes time to find a good mechanic or garage who won't take advantage of customers. I think there is a reason why they don't want customers to watch them work. They don't want you to see how little they time they spend compared to what you are charged. I had an injector replaced at the CAT dealer in Denver a few years ago. I was surprised that my bill was a little less than the estimate. :shock: It was still high, but I would go back to them because I believe they were fair with me. I don't necessarily expect a garage to be cheap. After all, they are in business, too. I do expect them to be honest......or at least I used to. Now, I wait and see how they do business.

I will share a good experience I had with an International dealer in upstate New York. I had a pinion that was loose. I went in on a Saturday and they tightened it up for me without charge. They probably spend 30 minutes to an hour checking it out. When it came time to pay, they didn't charge me a penny. NOTHING!! I never expected them to work on my truck for FREE. I later found out that the pinion was bad and wound up putting in a new power divider. They got me going and I was able to have the work done at home for much less than I could on the road. Of all places to get a break, I would not have expected to get one in New York. It seems that my experience in that state has been right the opposite.

There are still some good people and dealers out there. We should share our experiences with them and give them our business and shun those who defraud us. 8)

[Papa Rick]

I really appreciate the information and advice. Thanks so very much.

[brian]

book time is not fraud, the time estimates are usually pretty close to the time it actually takes, in some cases your gaining a few hours and in some your losing some hours, why should a mechanic who can do the job just as well or better then another tech but quicker make less money then him.

[Cam]

Brian wrote:

...the time estimates are usually pretty close to the time it actually takes, in some cases your gaining a few hours and in some your losing some hours...

Gman and many others are much more qualified to give you a reply but I'm just glad you are on this thread providing an opposing opinion. Getting at the truth of a matter is what's most important.

When I had my fan clutch replaced the service writers seemed pretty quick to prescribe a $350 dyno test in order to diagnose the problem. They aren't even mechanics but they had me spending all that money before the repair even began. What if, like so many shops, they didn't have a dyno!? I suspect the mechanic would have spent maybe an hour on labor to make the diagnostic and then swapped out the part.

I came in and talked to a service writer. A while later another guy who looked like a service writer came in with the repair estimate. I asked him if a dyno had been done and he said 'dunno'. I pressed him on it for concern about the $350 and he agreed to go back and ask the mechanic. Then he came back and said that they hadn't had to do the dyno. I waited in the lounge with the cable TV until they were about closed and I had booked a load. I went to the first service writer and said, 'gotta go, where are we at?'. He then informed me the part hadn't even arrived yet. I began to express, shall we say..., 'unhappiness'.... ops: A little later a third guy in a collared shirt who wasn't the mechanic came to TV land to tell me the part had arrived and that the truck would be done soon, just six bolts on the fan clutch, and that I could go ahead and cash out. I took one more look at the bill and asked him what all the labor was for (he had just told me installing the part would take maybe a half hour). That's when he told me about the book hour rates and about the cost of the...dyno.... 'Dyno!?' I was told that there had been no dyno, that it hadn't been necessary. You know, they've got coffee in TV land but you can't follow anything going on with your truck! He said 'no', there had in fact been a dyno done. I asked why it wasn't listed on the bill and where the results were. He said they don't do a printout on the $350 diagnostic dyno, they are just looking for the cause of the problem (which never was loss of power). He said the dyno with the printout costs $500!!! I expressed further, yes, let's say.., 'unhappiness'....

In the end he dropped the price $300. But, then I started thinking about that $700 fan clutch. Man, it just doesn't look like much. Cummins never let on what they were paying the courier to bring it over and how much they were marking it up over Freightliner's price. I had initially signed off on it because the cost of paying off Cummins and then going over to Freighliner to have them do the repair didn't sound too good, either. I still don't know what Freightliner charges for them.

Three people in clean white shirts between myself and the mechanic!!! I've got a nice comfy sofa but can't see a thing that they are doing with my truck. Service writers prescribing a $350 dyno before even talking to a mechanic. Conflicting stories about whether a dyno had been done and no printout, no hp or blowby. $700 for a part that doesn't look like it costs $200. I can appreciate shops providing the driver with a little comfort but it does seem like they are just trying to anesthetize you while they raid your bank account.

[solo379]

Well Cam, you've been conned! :sad: There is plenty of that kind of crooks. The friend of mine, had a thermostat replaced in his "kitty" for over a grand!
When i've asked the CAT dealer, i'm frequent, if it's normal, they said, with the big eyes :shock: it would be around $200!
Unfortunately, he paid with the cash! Always pay it with the C/C, so you could dispute the charges later.

Also, if you came in to change a fan clutch, what "diagnoses" you are talking about? :roll:
Just stick to your guns! They can advise you, but they can't force you to do anything, w/o your autorithation! :x

My fan clutch, complet kit + labor, cost me just under $500, done at the dealer, but that was in a late 90th!

[brian]

cam you got ripped off by a shady shop, thats entirely different then a reputable shop charging you book hours instead of straight hours.

[Cam]

Solo:

...if you came in to change a fan clutch, what "diagnoses" you are talking about?

I didn't know what was wrong with the truck only that it overheated in the mountains under a load. I had gone into Atlanta Freightliner on their second shift and their mechanic couldn't figure it out. He thought it might have been the ECM, that's why I went to Cummins. All that brings up another point, ever get the feeling you are paying for the practical education of newbie mechanics?

Anyways, when I balked at $90 in labor just for Freightliner to tell me, 'beats me, ' they dropped the hour of labor and just charged me for the DOT inspection I had done. It was Freightliner after all, I might expect to pay for the same repair twice if I started at a truckstop or something. Was a dyno necessary to figure out that the overheating was caused by a bad fan clutch....wellll....' dunno. I have my doubts, as you know, lots of shops don't even have one.

[Cam]

Brian:

...a shady shop...

Tampa Cummins, definitely no shade tree mechanics. But that's the thing, is the whole hospital atmosphere with the waiting room and all the non-mechanic attendants just designed to make you pay like a hospital!?

[brian]

so lemme get this straight, just because it was a cummins shop its automatically run by a bunch of fine upstanding gentleman?

what your describing, being overcharged for a part and charged for a dyno test that was never done is totally different then being charged book hours which in most cases it clearly written on the estimate.



now it all makes sense, they saw you coming when you needed that fan clutch :lol:

[Cam]

I'm just trying to understand it all myself, Brian. If I had it all figured out I wouldn't be here talking about it, I'd be on to other things. A friend of mine has owned a truck for 15 years and he doesn't speak kindly of these major franchise repair shops. He's found a guy with a little shop in Jasper Indiana that he respects so much I'll bet he sends him flowers for his birthday :lol: