[solo379]

Same ol same Oldcoldger! 8) Just the day is different ! Glad to hear from you! 8)

[Patrick]

First: Companies that pay for log book violations.

You say you can name at least five. I didn't want to talk to them so I can seek employment with them. I wanted you to list them in a way that someone could contact them. Like if I wanted to call them and ask them to verify what you claim. Or maybe if the DOT wants to do the same. Or maybe a lawyer for the family of some four-wheeler who died in an accident involving one of their drivers would have some questions about their policies and their culpability/liability in the incident. Maybe even the carrier's insurance company (if they don't carry their own) would like to talk to them too. But I suspect that the companies that you have in mind will go unnamed. Forgive me if I refrain from holding my breath.

Second: Doctoring you logs to make the big bucks.

So you paid your mortgage by running illegally? Is this supposed to win you admiration and respect from your peers? I am becoming more and more convinced (even as a green rookie) that by allowing the company to hold your mileage (pay) over your head to run illegally and dangerously is not the right way to go. You seem to have a misconception that companies would want you to stay legal and would complain or penalize you if you didn't. Besides being liable for accidents or trying to keep their insurance costs down - why would a company want to limit the miles and time their truck can be on the road? If you are willing to take the risks yourself, and the company can claim to know nothing about it and avoid any liability, why would they try to stop you? Sure you make more money yourself - but the company doesn't suffer either. Seems like a win-win except for the rest of us who might not be so willing to falsify legal documents or drive beyond our capabilities. You may be able to drive for 20 hours straight. But the DOT says a company cannot require a driver to drive more than 10 without a break. So you may be superman but for the rest of your fellow truckers - you are doing them a great disservice. Simple economics says the company will do what it needs to do to maintain a competitive edge. And when they can run you illegally without having to risk anything themselves, they will. And the rest of us are either given the crappy assignments or kicked to the curb.

Third: Being a "Old-School Driver" as opposed to a Good driver.

I'm glad that you agree that if one has a "spine" and learns the lessons that can only be taught on the road that they to can be "Old School" like you - even if they don't doctor their books.

Fourth: Drugs being given to drivers by companies back in the day.

You answer my question with sarcasm. Is that a yes or no. Did they give free speed/uppers/drugs to their drivers or not? If they did, why? You were running back in the day. Don't lie - we can handle the truth.

Fifth: The union.

I do not support unions. I never liked them. When I had the misfortune of dealing with them they sold out the new guys and allowed a two tiered pay scale in that allowed the old timers to leave with their gold parachutes but broke the unions back after. It is my opinion that when companies literally chewed up their employees by working them until they were physically disabled and then spat them out on the street - unions were needed. Now, with regulations in place - the union isn't as necessary.

You may have been so good as to bring the company to its knees all on your own but the vast majority of workers know that individuals have very little leverage with a company when there are lots of people out there willing to "do what it takes" to accomplish the companies profit priorities. I'd like to see a time where drivers know that if they doctor their books to make a few more miles - they are cutting their fellow tuckers off at the knees.

[littleman2]

Well Montra i can see that you live up to your name your montra is I am cowboy run ilegal and hope i don't get caught. and why I left Long haul is I get paid more doing local driving home every night sleep in my house have real food cooked the way I like it weekends off. Off work early and enjoy my life. Ask me if I miss the otr days sure do some things were great some were not. I just like to drive in the citys and be home for dinner with my wife and kids. If I need to go back out to put food on the table be there in heart beat. But right now I am happy to drive with no need for a log book. But One thing Montra someday you just might get caught with a log book violation and you will never drive again is it worth it. is any load worth your life or some one else's life? to drive tired? So if you want to call people simpletons and wheel holders just because they choose to obye the law is the sign of a fool. Let me ask you this question? whould you fly in plane were a pilot has not had his ten hours of rest? did you know that the FFA has HOS ruels too? and they are followed to the letter. and did you know that in 98% of all commercal plane crashes not do to mecanical or weather problems it involved pilots violation of thier hos rules. hmmm. maybe the DOT needs to look harder at truckers log books. Just a thought.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by littleman2

... Let me ask you this question? whould you fly in plane were a pilot has not had his ten hours of rest? did you know that the FFA has HOS ruels too? and they are followed to the letter. and did you know that in 98% of all commercal plane crashes not do to mecanical or weather problems it involved pilots violation of thier hos rules. hmmm. maybe the DOT needs to look harder at truckers log books. Just a thought.

Damn Good Point! I trust my life to the pilot flying a plane. But the unsuspecting four wheelers on the road do pretty much the same thing with professional drivers, don't they? We are unable to walk into the cockpit and demand to see how many hours they have been flying. Likewise, four wheelers cannot pull over the random trucker and check their log and driving hours today!

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by oldcodger

First off the bat :

Solo379 - Hows it going?? Still doing the O/O deal?? I'm still with...well you know :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm ROFLMAO at some of these posts on log books.

I only have 3 little things to say.

1. Driver logs are federal documents and can, will, and have been used in courts of law.

2. Drivers can be and have been sent to Federal Prison for serious log book violations.

3. I'm too old to be someones Mary

I took three bennies, now my semi-truck won't start :shock: ops:

Codger

Prison!? I hadn't a clue. Thanks for the good information there Codger. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I'm not looking to become Bubba's B*&%h :!:

[The_Man_In_Black]

Originally Posted by oldcodger

First off the bat :

Solo379 - Hows it going?? Still doing the O/O deal?? I'm still with...well you know :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm ROFLMAO at some of these posts on log books.

I only have 3 little things to say.

1. Driver logs are federal documents and can, will, and have been used in courts of law.

2. Drivers can be and have been sent to Federal Prison for serious log book violations.

3. I'm too old to be someones Mary

I took three bennies, now my semi-truck won't start :shock: ops:

Codger

:lol: :lol: Great post!!! You made my night!! :lol:

[dtrain]

Patrick I sent you an e-mail, was that information helpful? :idea:
Logging legal as oppose to logging illegal, what for a few more miles, a few more cents. Is it worth it? I think not. We are in this business because we like driving and would like to make money at the same time. However the need for money and operating illegally is a fools errand. For someone to sit in the cab of their truck and perpetrate a fraud in a logbook just to get Mr. Charlies freight to market on time is a fool. :withstupid: The risks of getting caught at it and you will get caught. You can play russian roulette but for long until the bullet catches up to you. I enjoy driving, I love it. 8) I love being on the road. But I will be damned if I'm going to risk losing the thing I enjoy by falsifying a logbook and lose money in a fine, and for what, for what; the man; Bull :dung: We can do the thing we love doing and get the goods to market in a timely manner. If you look at why do drivers, professional drivers run illegally; time, time!! We got to beat the clock. Are you going to be rewarded for beating the clock, I think not. As a matter of fact the opposite would happen. Pushing the envelope, heightens the risk of accident, tickets, and other ill wills. How will the company reward for that? You will be on the ouside looking in. :cry: :evil:
The only way we are going to prevent having to log illegally is we as professional drivers have to say "no," and mean it, not just muttering the words, mean it!. Of course there will be consequences to this action. Dispatchers will do their best to intimidate you by letting you sit in some truckstop somewhere for days waiting for a load. So we don't refuse the work because we don't want to sit in a truckstop for days. So we take that job that we know we can't do legally. So we sit in the cab somewhere and do our dirty work; falsifying the logbook. Then guess what, we pull into a scale house and get told to pull around the back. An inspector asks for your logbook. It is discovered to be a fraud; you get fined, you lose money; you lose time, and for what!! ops: :roll: :cry: :withstupid: See you on the big road! :asta:

[Patrick]

Wow :shock:

Was it something I said :?:

Before 60% of the people taking this poll said they "doctored" their books. Now 66% of participants say they do not. Could it be movement in the right direction?

I'd like to thank everyone for their input here. And I do mean Everyone! If we all agreed all the time we wouldn't have a need to talk about anything, would we? When I first posted this thread I wasn't quite sure how I felt about DOT regulations and HOS. This thread has made me think about it in ways that I would not have otherwise.

I know I need to go into this line of work with an open mind and some flexibility but in this area I know what I will constantly strive for. I want to be able to pull out my log book, make two copies of it and send them to the New York times as well as the DOT - no matter what the situation. I don't ever want to be in the position of having doctored my books and find myself on the wrong end of an accident with a log book that might as well be a boulder I can tie around my leg as I sink.

Keep those thoughts coming. Even if you disagree.

Thanks,
Patrick

[Patrick]

Hey dtrain, Thanks for your e-mail and thorough reply. I appreciate it. It was helpful and I can't find a point where I disagree at all.

[willyworm]

Originally Posted by 73Firebird

why? its simple because drivers do NOT get paid by the hour but rather by the mile and if you have had between 30-50 hours that week spent waiting on docks to get or drop a load then you have 2 choices, take it in the pants (lower check) or get creative.

I doubt anyone wants to work more.....I would also bet 90% of drivers dont count the driving as work :shock: but rather consider lumping, and dock hassles to be the actual "work" and thats not even paid!

the 14 hours a day you quoted sound nice, a good solid 14 hour day "should" pay well.....however if 3 hours is spent loading, and 3 hours are spent unloading, and another 2 hours stuck in traffic, and another hour fueling, and another hour doing trip planing and logs...well now your 14 hour day just became a hassle filled 4 hours of drive time.

Well it's like this: DRIVING IS WORK, THAT IS THE JOB! and if your working the docks for FREE! SORRY, BUT YOUR 'NUTS" Why would you let a company sell your time, and then not pay you, for doing the work.
If you are Detained at a receiver's dock for 2 hours or more and not paid. "WHY"? when must companies pay detention pay.
If you keep doing this crap, for free you and others like you will never be paid. .....
WHO THE "H" DO YOU WORK FOR? I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I NEVER DO!
...........YOUR GIVING YOUR TIME TO THE WRONG COMPANY.
IT'S ONLY CALLED A JOB IF THEY PAY YOU!