I can see that we are not going to see eye to eye on this
Montara. But in the spirit of free discourse and healthy debate I feel it necessary to respond. I know that one of the skills I will have to master to be a good truck driver will be obtaining a thicker skin. So, as a rookie I say ...
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Originally Posted by Montara
...what is your primary reason for you being out OTR for days on end. To be known as a saint...?
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Maybe everyone has a different reason. I think the majority is to make money. For me - it is to work hard, travel, and drive a Big Rig (like the 9 year old kid in me has always wanted to do). I happen to be fortunate enough not to need the money as badly as some others might. I'm not wealthy but I don't have a family and I have very few bills/financial obligations right now. Sure - saving a few nickles won't hurt - but I have a decent education and can make much more with my experience right now doing other things.
Now, why do you go OTR for days on end? For the cash only?
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Originally Posted by Montara
If the company is going to demand 100 % compliance and run legal logs.. they can kiss my old school ass goodbye and replace me with some whipping boy that'll genuflect to them on demand.
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I don't believe this is about a company demanding 100% compliance. In fact I think it is the opposite. It seems to me that the company has nothing to loose by you deciding to doctor your log books. Meanwhile you take
all the risk - financially and professionally. You say a decent company will pay the fine? What company would that be? Know of one? I'd like to talk to them.
However, if you're with a company that will turn a blind eye to your illegal activities, deny having any part in them if you get caught, all the while banking the profit it receives from your quick and frequent shipments because they hold decent miles and assignments over your head -
well then - it appears you're the one who is getting whipped by the company and genuflecting on demand for their financial benefit.
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Originally Posted by Montara
Old school attitudes meant taking pride in your ride while doing what it took to get the job done.
It meant stopping to help another driver that was broke down, not seeing just how much spray you can throw up on him as you went flying by at 55mph.
Steering wheel holder, doesn't really care about what they drive or the truck's appearance as long as it's legal. The only concern they have is following the rules and regulations to a tee. Nothing more.
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Is it possible for someone to "take pride in their ride" without breaking the law? Even if the law is idiotic? I mean, could the new-school, wimp also be the kind of driver who will pull over and assist a fellow trucker who is on the side of the road? Is it possible for someone who refuses to let the company run them illegally be a safe driver at the same time? Are all DOT compliant drivers simply "steering wheel holders" who drive around in dirty, beat up old tractors?
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Originally Posted by Montara
Old school as in I'm not about to pull in and have a mechanic adjust my brakes because I haven't got a clue what to do with a 9/16th's wrench on a manual slack adjuster.
Old school as in the last thing you do before you got in a truck was remove your mud covered boots and set them on a towel beside the door.
Old school as in 6x4 did not mean 24, 5x4 did not mean 20.
Old school... meant you knew how to do it and took care of it yourself.
Not picking up the phone every five freaking minutes asking some paper pusher... is this okay, am I allowed, would it be alright, etc...
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I'm impressed. Honestly. I don't have these skills -
yet. Maybe I can learn them as you did and still stay legal? Would that eventually make me Old School too? Or if I simply insist on keeping my logs clean I'm forever doomed to be some less than desirable - dependent - mealy mouth little wimp who will never know how to do it or take care if it myself?
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Originally Posted by Montara
You ever tried to fight a ticket? How many have you ever beaten it?
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No - never had a ticket - ever. Do you have to have tickets you've beaten to be a good, desirable, skilled, "Old-School" driver that knows how to do it and does it himself? What does this have to do with keeping legal in regards to my log?
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Originally Posted by Montara
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Originally Posted by Patrick
I'm confused. Was it better when there were no restrictions and a company could demand you drive 12, 14, 18 hours in one shot or you loose your job?
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Well, as someone that has driven before they mandated hours of service up here in Canada, hell YES it was better then. And anyone with a backbone put in that position, would have told the company to go, well you know, to do what to themselves. |
Just a thought. I've heard that "back then" companies would give speed/uppers/drugs to their drivers to keep them going. For free ... Is this true?
At first it seemed like you were saying that maybe you like the company having the power to fire you for refusing to work such outrageous and clearly unsafe hours. But on second read I think you're saying you would simply tell the company that did this to go .... themselves. Then I guess you could go home to your family with empty hands and tell them how much of a man with backbone you were standing up to the evil oppressive company. Yes, much better back then. :roll:
Frankly, being a person apparently without backbone, I appreciate the regulation that prevents such blatant abuse by a company. I'm not much of a union man, and I feel if things are not good for me I have the choice to walk out. But if so many felt the way you did, why where unions like the Teamsters formed? Wasn't it because the only recourse a driver would have against a company that would abuse him would be to tell the company to go ..... themselves? And that kind of option wasn't very good when you had a wife and kids to feed and a roof to maintain for their protection?
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Originally Posted by Montara
Why is Dr. Joe the heart surgeon, William the CEO or Edward the Senator/Congressman allowed to put in 14 hour days and then hop into his Yukon with the boat towed behind it and drive all night to get up to the lake on the weekend? Class discrimination?
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Maybe it has nothing to do with class at all. Maybe it is because the Dr., The CEO,
nor the Politician have a boss/company threatening them with termination or crappy assignments and harassment if they don't get behind the wheel and operate the vehicle on public roads unsafely. Maybe their fat and psychopathic wives will thrash them within inches of their lives! But at least they won't loose their source of income if they feel they are too tired to operate their vehicle safely.
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Originally Posted by Montara
Well.. that's a nice fantasy and one that is commonly shared by all at first.
But feel no shame when reality kicks in and makes you realise that.. a safe driver is just that...
One that drives safely, not one that drives to meet the requirements of when and for how long set out by an idiotic piece of legislation.
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So a safe driver isn't one who follows the rules and regulations set out by the regulating authorities? A safe driver is one who does what he/she thinks is safe - even if it breaks the law? You mentioned that some employers would not prefer an "Old School" driver as they are considered "loose cannons". I can see why. If each individual was left to decide what rules and laws they want to follow or ignore, I'd think we would have anarchy.
Don't get me wrong! I have violated laws here and there in the past. Things like changing lanes too frequently or going a little over the speed limit. Failing to signal for a turn. Maybe an illegal u-turn here and there too. I have tried to do them as safely as possible. But I took no pride in doing them and I wouldn't brag about doing them OR claim to be better than other drivers who would refuse to do what I did. I wouldn't call those unwilling to do what I did "steering wheel holders" or without backbone! And if I were cited for those violations, I would be guilty. Thankfully the violations were minor, were not so unsafe as to cause an incident at the time, and were not observed by any enforcing agency.
However, the DOT regulations on CDL-A licenses are not only in place to keep things reasonably safe but to prevent the abuse of drivers at the hands of companies that hold
the bottom line as their only priority. I think that is extremely reasonable - not idiotic.
And isn't the driver who is willing to flout these regulations defeating the purpose of protecting the worker? As long as the company doesn't risk anything, why should they put up with the new-school steering wheel holder when they can make more money with the old-school guy who doesn't care if his fellow drivers get crappy assignments and cut-back miles?
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Originally Posted by Montara
They need us more than we need them. Trust me.
You think that those wearing white shirts and suits and ties are going to pick up the slack? Not bloody likely.
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Right now, with the economy heating up and employment getting better, you are correct. They do need us more than we need them. But how long will it last? In hard times it isn't the white shirts and suits that will pick up the slack -- It's your fellow driver.
The whipping boy who is willing to risk his/her own career and/or safety by doctoring their books while the company turns its head gets the job. Meanwhile the driver who has been working for a while and knows themselves enough to know that he/she cannot operate a vehicle safely after 10 hours OTR without a break gets kicked to the curb.
Thanks Mr. "Old Time Driver" ... Thanks a lot!
8) Everybody has an opinion, we are all adults here, and trues, (if any) 
as usual somewhere in between! 8) I just wonna say, that i'm glad, that people, like Patrick, entering the industry! Just don't loose it, once faced with reality, and may be you could change things for the better! :wink: 8)
ops: :lol:
