[madaxeman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

It's not THAT easy. I normally run a straight 6 speed, I climbed in several trucks that my brother oversee's that are a high/low 6 speed and an 18 speed. I found out real quick that it's a world of difference from what I'm used to. I cannot imagine going from an auto to a manual with 12 speeds+ to worry about. Now I picked it up rather quickly because I've only driven manual vehicles my whole driving life but for many it's not as easy your portraying.

I was just referring to the Eaton Auto-shift ten-speed and a regular Eaton manual ten-speed (which most companies use). Obviously, if you completely change the transmission to an 18 speed, it will be different. In fact, (if you really wanted to) you could shift and downshift the auto-shift manually with the paddle on the column. It shifts at the same RPM range (and road speed) as the manual 10. It's a piece of cake switching as long as you know WHEN to shift (and downshift). If you went to a decent school you should have learned how. Now, you just have to apply what you learned. I was a bit worried, too...but it was easy once I got in a manual truck (because I remembered what I learned in school even though it was three years earlier).

[Copperhead]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

It's not THAT easy. I normally run a straight 6 speed, I climbed in several trucks that my brother oversee's that are a high/low 6 speed and an 18 speed. I found out real quick that it's a world of difference from what I'm used to. I cannot imagine going from an auto to a manual with 12 speeds+ to worry about. Now I picked it up rather quickly because I've only driven manual vehicles my whole driving life but for many it's not as easy your portraying.

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it. A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it. My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift. I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons. A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time. If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by Copperhead

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it. A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it. My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift. I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons. A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time. If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

If I was gonna go with an "auto-shift', I would just take the leap, spend the extra $$$ and get an Allison automatic. I drove trucks with the 5 and 6 speed cable AND air shift back in the 70's and through the mid 80"s....and I loved them. The new Allison transmissions shift a whole lot better I am betting!

[golfhobo]

Copperhead said:

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it.

I'm not bleeding, so I don't think that was a direct hit... but, my ears are ringing. :lol:

Personally, my manhood was tested and certified YEARS before I even thought of driving a truck. When I did... I cared mostly about being able to handle it, back and park it, etc. I knew I COULD... I just had to master it to consider myself safe on the road... blah, blah, blah. I NEVER doubted that I could do any of it... except the first time the instructor tried to prove I could shift if without the clutch (floating.) WHAT??? But, I never would have "tackled" trucking without the expectation that I also would have to "tackle" something more than my passenger car's auto transmission!

What I said originally about grandma controlling my truck from home is a prognostication of a future world. You know, one where lethal DRONES are flown by guys in a chair in Omaha. I'll bet some of those grandmas have bigger cajones than some of the drivers on the road today!

But, even THIS is more likely than training a primate to do the job. Nuff said.

A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

For the most part, I agree. This year was the first time since school that I had to use a 13 spd. My boss even told me... "it's just like a 9 speed with an overdrive." He was WRONG. I drive West coast and back... most drivers do 48 states. I think that would qualify for nearly every example of "special terrain" we have in America. There is a HUGE difference in the pulling power and top end (for the range) between 8th and 9th gears on a 10 speed... and 11th and 12th on a 13! Especially when climbing out of Coachella to Chirriaco Summit on I-10 out of Cali! At least there is for a truck that is not limited to 60-65 mph!

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

About 2 years after I started, and who knows how many "pan-national" trips in a 10 spd.... I was told to go up to G'boro and bring home an identical truck with an auto-shift. Two blocks from the dealer, as I was attempting a left turn over a bridge over the interstate, the truck "balked" at rev limit for the gear I was in. It wouldn't shift UP to get me out of there... or DOWN to let me try over. I switched to manual override, and hit the paddle... with not much better luck. I FINALLY got out of the way of traffic, but was stricken by the realization that I could have been KILLED if I needed to get out of the way of a speeding truck or something! I was furious! Either GRANDMA... or the MONKEY.... had failed me. My abilities with a manual transmission of any speed never WOULD have.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it.

I agree to some extent. My brother (who never wanted to BE a trucker,) drove an auto for awhile and used to kid me about how he could eat a sandwich and talk on the phone while driving! But... the original question came from a newbie (I believe) who didn't HAVE years of experience "under his belt" with a manual. Was he even asking if it was a good "training" move.... or, an economical one. One of "hireability?"

My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift.

Yeah but...

A 13 ... is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits.

I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

One night in Florida, a lady just a few years older than me, who was experienced on a manual, asked me to back her truck/trailer into a dock. She had broken her only pair of eyeglasses (or so she said.) It was an AUTO "something" and she warned me about how hard it was to keep it tight against the dock (or even GET it there because of the "bump" nature with the auto.) I don't need any MORE reminders of why I don't drive an auto.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons.

I'm just gonna let that pass without comment.

A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time.

Didn't I say something about this earlier? Show me a guy/gal with years of experience in an AUTO that can adapt to this as quickly as I can. Show me a monkey that can do it quicker. On the other hand.... if the future IS auto-shifts, well.... let me introduce you to my grandma!

If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

Ah yes... After being a competition roller skater in my youth, I felt sure I could handle "inline skates." So did my sister-in-law who fell and broke her arm. Ask ANYONE using a digital camera what the focal length, film speed, or shutter speed was on the last picture he took. I'll bet a monkey could give you the same blank stare.

Sure... the monkey might be trained to hit the right "button" to snap the picture. Could go viral! But.... that don't make him no PHOTOGRAPHER!

:lol:

[Copperhead]

Well, the future of transportation was the automobile over a century ago. And I'll bet there were wagon wheel workers that complained about it for several decades after they were out of work. At least there are still options for those that prefer one transmission over another. That doesn't make the auto shift or the manual any better than the other. Regarding the Allison, that is pure automatic and it has been shown to not get the desired fuel economy of an auto shift. That may change in the future.

It would seem that some feel that if these new drivers do not learn in an old un-air conditioned truck with no air ride seats, a coffin style sleeper, a 5x4 tranny, etc, then they are not real truck drivers. I have trained some of these new drivers in the past and there were a couple of them that I would have been more than willing to put up against some of the "old hands". It is pure arrogance to demand a new driver learn everything the way we had to learn it. And with all the other things that a new driver has to worry about in that first year, if by putting an auto shift in a truck so that the driver can put more of the focus on the road and those around him, then what's the problem? There will always be time down the road to learn all the other things we all have learned. And considering the maintenance issues, it is less costly to put a new driver in a truck with an auto shift. Less drive train abuse. If you are paying for the truck, then you can decide how it is spec'd for a new driver. If I was paying the bills and a new driver was in my truck, I would seriously consider an auto shift to reduce the problems I mentioned.

It isn't a perfect world, and there is no one size fits all perfect solution.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Copperhead

It isn't a perfect world, and there is no one size fits all perfect solution.

Yes there is. I am one of them. Trained to shift whatever I would encounter during my career (except "autos.") Capable and intelligent enough to figure out and master ANY of them. Experienced in, and fully trained on, the interstate and highway system of the U.S. Map qualified, Superior to the gps system. Familiar with, and not scared of, the old highway system (before the interstates.) Snow and Ice qualified and tested. [Are the auto tranny's?]

Generally speaking ((and this is a humorous allusion to the Gordon Cooper character (Dennis Quaid) in "The Right Stuff,")) the BEST dang truckdriver I ever saw!

the future of transportation was the automobile over a century ago. And I'll bet there were wagon wheel workers that complained about it for several decades after they were out of work.

No. It was the horse drawn "freight companies" that suffered from the innovation. Do you KNOW why our union is called "the Teamsters?"

It would seem that some feel that if these new drivers do not learn in an old un-air conditioned truck with no air ride seats, a coffin style sleeper, a 5x4 tranny, etc, then they are not real truck drivers.

Nope. Never "served" under those conditions. Have always had a nice "Condo" truck with all the amenities.... AND a 10 or 13 spd manual tranny. But, thanks for the melodramatics!

It is pure arrogance to demand a new driver learn everything the way we had to learn it.

Guilty as charged! IF I owned a truck.... I would demand it! Heck... I demand it of myself NOW!

[madaxeman]

One positive thing I can say about the auto-shift (which I drove for 18 months is this)...having to go through metros, like Chicago, in heavy, stop-and-go traffic jams for two to three hours, I'll take the auto-shift any day over a manual (unless you like shifting and downshifting 100s of times to not get very far, very fast). Personally, I'd wait until rush hour is over but you don't always have that liberty due to appointment times. Another thing I found positive was this...when I got out driving school and started working, I was able to concentrate on all of the other aspects of driving. I became skilled at lane control, turns, both sighted and blindside backing, etc. When I made the switch (to a manual transmission), it was really easy and only had to be concerned about getting used to shifting and downshift because everything else was a piece of cake at that point.

[golfhobo]

Good points. I've "wished" it myself (under my breath) a few times in a 5 mile backup for an accident. Wanted to beat up the trucker who caused it. :lol:

[Fredog]

next thing you know, these pussies are going to want power steering and air conditioning

[Malaki86]

Originally Posted by Fredog

next thing you know, these pussies are going to want power steering and air conditioning

And air-ride tractors!!! Bring out the pitchforks!!! Hang them from the town square!!!

Seriously, though, one of the best trucks I've ever driven was a 2002 Volvo 770 with the 10-speed autoshift (not the ultrashift). The truck had fantastic power and maintened the best fuel mileage in our entire fleet (50 trucks). The only time I had a problem was when the X-Y shifter started to go bad. Even with that, a tap on the transmission with a hammer fixed it. I would've bought that truck in a heartbeat.