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Old 05-12-2009, 10:08 PM
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Default Signature on log book

Received a paperwork\log book check today at the rest area in Nichols, NY. No violations:clap:

However the Trooper said I should not sign the Log Book until the end of the day. It says next to the signature area "I certify these entries are true and correct". Obviously I have been in the habit of signing the form at the beginning of the day to show that I do certify the entries are correct. Hypothetically if I did not sign the box and I made a log entry error then I can't receive a ticket for the error since the log is not certified for that current day. [No violations were issued, I am just thinking lawyer style]

Found this -
Quote:
395.8 Record of Duty Status
(f)(7) Signature/certification. The driver shall certify to the correctness of all entries by signing the form containing the driverís duty status record with his/her legal name or name of record. The driverís signature certifies that all entries required by this section made by the driver are true and correct.
Obviously the record must be signed, but no mention of when.

Also I disassemble my log book pages or to put it another way I use loose log book pages. The Trooper had a major problem with this. He wanted to know why and I explained that "it's the way I was trained". I even showed him my clipboard, demonstrated the manner in which I used the loose pages, and the benefits for me. [Easier to show than to write so I'll leave out the details] Like I said no violations so the earful must have been my punishment for that. Part 395.8 said nothing about requiring the pages to be bound, nor are the words book or bound even in that section.

I have been checking the FMCSA rules and regulations pages online looking for the legal\correct way(s) but I keep losing my connection. I'll keep trying and post an update if I find anything useful.. If anyone has definitive information or can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Dan
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:24 PM
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There are not any regulations saying exactly when you must sign your log book, however it can be taken, by signing it first thing, that you are certifying all the log entries on that page are accurate and then making any new log entries on that page could be seen as tampering with an official document.

Also there are not any regulations saying what style of log book you must use. The only regulations governing the actual log book contains what each log page must contain. (24 time grid, carrier name, etc. )

The only other reg pertaining to the actual physical log book really is the one telling you that you must have todays and the last 7 days log book pages in your possession and be ready to provide for inspection upon request.

The whole reason cops hate loose leaf is because it makes it a lot easier to cheat that the bound version. With the bound version if you remove more than a page or two it becomes obvious and if you do remove a page from it you have to make sure to get the part of the page under the binding.

Some DOT types have been known to actually count how many log sheets are in a log book and if they come up with less than 31 they start hearing alarms and the ching ching of the fine register.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:03 AM
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The NY trooper had a bug up his butt.....and you were next in line.

It doesn't matter when you sign the log..... and to give you the opposite of NY, if you got checked in CA....its probably more than likely CHP would gripe that you didn't sign it.

I have always signed mine when I begin the day.....and since its the only place that my name appears on the log sheet....and I have been "Level 1'd" a number of times, and it has never come up.

As to loose leaf.....been doing it for years....and again...never had a word said about it.

I guess some DOT/Troopers have to complain about something..... And on the other hand, others apparently don't automatically "assume" you are up to something illegal.....
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:30 AM
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Thanks Uturn2001 & Skywalker. Just wanted to make sure I did'nt goof.

Thanks Again,
Dan
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:33 AM
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I was taught to never sign it until the day was over, because signing it would signify you say it is a complete and accurate document.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:41 AM
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Just to toss in my two bits, What I was taught, 30 years ago, was that you are required to sign the log book, to identify that it is "Your" logbook, and to certify that "You" are the individual making the entries, and that you sign it, "When you start the day".

You can read this part of the regulation just about anyway you choose,


Quote:
395.8 Record of Duty Status
(f)(7) Signature/certification. The driver shall certify to the correctness of all entries by signing the form containing the driver’s duty status record with his/her legal name or name of record. The driver’s signature certifies that all entries required by this section made by the driver are true and correct.

Now, 30 years ago things were different.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matcat View Post
I was taught to never sign it until the day was over, because signing it would signify you say it is a complete and accurate document.
Would never stand up in court, there is no regulation saying when it must be signed, only that you sign it and confirm the entries as correct.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
395.8 Record of Duty Status
(f)(7) Signature/certification. The driver shall certify to the correctness of all entries by signing the form containing the driverís duty status record with his/her legal name or name of record. The driverís signature certifies that all entries required by this section made by the driver are true and correct.
If you sign a log book at 06:00 when you wake up/start your day/do your PTI, whatever, are all your entries done for the day? No. Your line is not at the end of the 24hr block, thus ALL ENTRIES are not completed. And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification. Much like if you were parked for the night, knew your 11 and 14 hr clocks were burnt up, and it was 23:00, most drivers draw the line to the end of the day....that is falsification. Do i do that? sure, who dont. But i dont sign my logbook till the end of the day.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
If you sign a log book at 06:00 when you wake up/start your day/do your PTI, whatever, are all your entries done for the day? No. Your line is not at the end of the 24hr block, thus ALL ENTRIES are not completed. And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification. Much like if you were parked for the night, knew your 11 and 14 hr clocks were burnt up, and it was 23:00, most drivers draw the line to the end of the day....that is falsification. Do i do that? sure, who dont. But i dont sign my logbook till the end of the day.
Thank you for getting us all straight on that Kev.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
If you sign a log book at 06:00 when you wake up/start your day/do your PTI, whatever, are all your entries done for the day? No. Your line is not at the end of the 24hr block, thus ALL ENTRIES are not completed. And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification. Much like if you were parked for the night, knew your 11 and 14 hr clocks were burnt up, and it was 23:00, most drivers draw the line to the end of the day....that is falsification. Do i do that? sure, who dont. But i dont sign my logbook till the end of the day.

Ok, if your the DOT/Tropper please show me which Reg, you are gonna cite to write an infraction that clearly states that the log [must] be signed at the end of the day?
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