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  #21  
Old 05-13-2009, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
the log, but I believe the "spirit" of the reg assumes that it will be signed after the LAST duty status change of the day.

I also found very interesting the concept that until you sign it, you SHOULD be allowed to correct it without getting a ticket. But, I also know that the DOT probably don't THINK that way.
ok...ill do my best perry mason impression....

first off, nowhere did i say in my post that you should be able to go back and make changes to your logbook up until you sign it. If you and others have read that into what i actually posted, then that is your fault.

what i'm saying is that in the regs that says "ALL ENTRIES". Yeah, you are current in your senario, Golf, and correct that all your entries up to that point are accurate. So I would assume that you are going to resign the logbook after every entry?? I take things literally, and when something says 'all entries', that means ALL. If you go back a day later and realize you forgot to put your miles down, and you happen to have signed it, BOOM.....ticket. If you signed it, and then after you pulled it out to turn into the company, and you happen to find that you forgot to write anything on your last 'flag' in remakrs at the end of the day....BOOM.....ticket.

Now i'm saying 'ticket' if you were pulled around a scale house, and a DOT punk was auditing your logbook. The question is, you are in the middle of your day, you've signed your logbook, and the DOT guy sees you've just started your day 2 hours ago, and in conversation with you knows you still plan to work/drive 10 more hours, CAN he legally give you a ticket?? yes he can. Just like in Ohio...if u was clocked doing 56, can u legally get a ticket?

and please, rev or whoever, show me where used these words and said 'until you sign the logbook, you can go back and make changes even with a DOT guy standing right there'.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2009, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
ok...ill do my best perry mason impression....

The question is, you are in the middle of your day, you've signed your logbook, and the DOT guy sees you've just started your day 2 hours ago, and in conversation with you knows you still plan to work/drive 10 more hours, CAN he legally give you a ticket?? yes he can.
Doubtfull. Untill you exceed the hours no ticket.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:31 PM
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Personally I don't think any ticket they give you would stick in court, because the reg just doesn't specify. But I do think whoever wrote it was thinking sign it when complete, name another document you sign before it is complete? I can't think of any.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
ok...ill do my best perry mason impression....

first off, nowhere did i say in my post that you should be able to go back and make changes to your logbook up until you sign it. If you and others have read that into what i actually posted, then that is your fault.

what i'm saying is that in the regs that says "ALL ENTRIES". Yeah, you are current in your senario, Golf, and correct that all your entries up to that point are accurate. So I would assume that you are going to resign the logbook after every entry?? I take things literally, and when something says 'all entries', that means ALL. If you go back a day later and realize you forgot to put your miles down, and you happen to have signed it, BOOM.....ticket. If you signed it, and then after you pulled it out to turn into the company, and you happen to find that you forgot to write anything on your last 'flag' in remakrs at the end of the day....BOOM.....ticket.

Now i'm saying 'ticket' if you were pulled around a scale house, and a DOT punk was auditing your logbook. The question is, you are in the middle of your day, you've signed your logbook, and the DOT guy sees you've just started your day 2 hours ago, and in conversation with you knows you still plan to work/drive 10 more hours, CAN he legally give you a ticket?? yes he can. Just like in Ohio...if u was clocked doing 56, can u legally get a ticket?

and please, rev or whoever, show me where used these words and said 'until you sign the logbook, you can go back and make changes even with a DOT guy standing right there'.
it says you certify all entries are correct, so as long as all future entries are correct, what's the problem, you have only certified that entries made are correct. if you havent made an entry you havent certified it. if I tell the officer I plan on speeding later can he give me a ticket for that?
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  #25  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
If you go back a day later and realize you forgot to put your miles down, and you happen to have signed it, BOOM.....ticket.
Whether or not you signed it, you could still get a ticket for incomplete log. In one scenario, your log is incomplete because you didn't put the total miles down. In the other, it is incomplete because you didn't put the miles down, and you didn't sign it.

Quote:
The question is, you are in the middle of your day, you've signed your logbook, and the DOT guy sees you've just started your day 2 hours ago, and in conversation with you knows you still plan to work/drive 10 more hours, CAN he legally give you a ticket?? yes he can.
He can give you a ticket for whatever he wants, but that would be speculation, and wouldn't hold up in court.
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  #26  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredog View Post
it says you certify all entries are correct, so as long as all future entries are correct, what's the problem, you have only certified that entries made are correct. if you havent made an entry you havent certified it. if I tell the officer I plan on speeding later can he give me a ticket for that?
Too bad the wording in the reg dont say 'future entries'.

and Rev.....i totally agree.
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2009, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin0915 View Post
ok...ill do my best perry mason impression....

first off, nowhere did i say in my post that you should be able to go back and make changes to your logbook up until you sign it. If you and others have read that into what i actually posted, then that is your fault.
Jesu Christo! Doesn't ANYBODY learn English Comp anymore??

Rev asked me where I "got" that from. I said from the O.P. Perhaps, you don't realize that means Original Post(er). Are YOU the original poster on this thread? :hellno:

I suppose I confused you by adding that little tidbit to my response to YOUR post. That happens. Just because I am quoting and answering YOUR post, does NOT mean that I can't say something about a "concept" I read in someone else's that I found interesting. It ain't always about YOU, Kevin.

As for your Perry Mason interpretation.... you fail. Perry would NEVER have missed that vital piece of information as to where that "concept" was mentioned. :lol2:

For the record, however, I agree with you that the "usual, legal practice" is to sign a document AFTER you have read it, or completed it, to show that you understand it or certify it. Unfortunately, the regs just DON'T make it clear as to whether that is what is expected.

There are certain college exams where you are required to sign/certify the validity and truthfullness of your OWN answers before you even start the test. You don't sign?..... You don't get to take the test. Just an example.
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2009, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
It ain't always about YOU, Kevin.

It isnt? you SURE????? :P

there is a bit of a difference between a college exam and federal paperwork.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2009, 12:49 AM
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Just to throw a little gas on the fire. When in court you swear to tell the truth before NOT AFTER! I sign it at the start of my day That's that, I have spoken!

hope someone's listening
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2009, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by repete View Post
Just to throw a little gas on the fire. When in court you swear to tell the truth before NOT AFTER! I sign it at the start of my day That's that, I have spoken!

hope someone's listening
again, like the college exam....not relevant.
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