[AC120]

Merry Christmas, RiN

So, based on the pro-forma numbers you were given, you're projecting first-year pre-tax income between $36,000 ((.29 X 60,000)+(.31 X 60,000) and $43,200 ((.29 X 72,000)+(.31 X 72,000) plus $2400 for bonuses? Here's the rub: freight and miles would always have to be there for it to work. 120,000 solo miles per year is a lot and 144,000 is--in my opinion--unrealistic. Too, the economy is slowing . . . less freight means less miles. Less miles means less pay. You said they pay layover after 24 hours, so sometimes freight and miles really aren't there and sometimes you'll go 24 hours without compensation.

Is that $200 monthly bonus attainable? I know that's not an easy question to answer.

As the economy worsens many companies are cutting back on or eliminating their 401(k) contributions. I'm just pointing that out.

"60-90% drop and hook." That's quite a spread. It implies up to 40% and at least 10% live unloads. Live unloads take time and you might decide the pay for you to hand unload a trailer isn't worth it. Or the company might pay lumpers (I don't know what you'd be hauling). But time spent at docks is time you're not driving (assuming there's freight), and that calls into question projected miles and, therefore, projected income. I'm assuming you'd be pulling vans or reefers, but perhaps it would be flatbeds or tanks--there's still loading and unloading. And cleanouts and breakdowns and weather and traffic and dock delays . . .

Getting home exactly every three weeks probably won't happen. OTR is also called "irregular linehaul"--you don't always take the same freight to the same places. If you're in, say, upstate New York when your three weeks are up, what happens? Can they route you back to Las Vegas? Will they? Consider lifestyle issues: can your marriage/home life tolerate three-week absences and absences that are longer than three weeks through no fault of your own?

Getting home from the terminal would be your responsibility. I'm not sure if this is "standard" among OTR carriers these days, but given the cost to run a truck and the complications (would the truck be safe; where would you park it?; what insurance issues arise if something goes wrong? what if they need the truck (assigned or not, if they need, they need it), it may be.

I'd add CR England to the avoid list--lots of CAD threads about CRE, more negative than positive. CRE's been in court a lot over failing to pay drivers, HOS issues, and escrow issues for lease operators. Google "CR England" and you'll see what I mean.

OTR is piecework and the pieces have to fall into place. It sounds romantic, but there's a gritty side. When you think of OTR what comes to mind?

One thing you can do: visit a couple of truck stops and ask drivers about their work and their carriers. Ask drivers who work at the carrier you're thinking about what it's like there. Ask about miles, drop and hook, and unloads. Ask about that monthly bonus. Ask about management attitudes towards drivers and HOS. Be skeptical. Weigh their answers carefully.

Finally, be wary of trucking school promises. They don't hire drivers--carriers do.

Oh--before we put the cart in front of the horse, is your driving record spotless?

BOL, as we say out there -- Best of Luck

[Retired in Nevada]

To all who have replied so far, thank you. It is good information to have as I make my decision during the next three weeks or so--a decision that I must make within that time frame because the WIA grant money to pay for the driving school won't be there much longer after that.

Keep your thoughts coming. I want to read opinions from as many viewpoints as possible.

To answer specific questions that some of you have posted:

* Other income: I recently began collecting a small pension from my last employer in the information technology field. It pays most of the basic bills, nothing more. I need to supplement the pension with additional income from another source. At age 55, I am at least seven years away from collecting Social Security.

* Local hourly paid jobs: I live 70 miles away from a big city (Las Vegas). The local jobs that existed in my home town were almost all related to construction. Construction has completely stopped here, so the jobs are all pretty much gone. The hourly pay rates were lousy, anyway.

* Starting pay for new OTR drivers: GMAN is correct. I have researched many companies that hire school graduates. Starting pay all falls in the 26 - 29 CPM range.

* Regional or dedicated driving vs. long haul: Yes, I eventually would want to switch to regional or dedicated driving. All of the companies that I have researched say that the newbies have to pay their dues running all 48 states first, then try to work into regional or dedicated. Everyone wants regional or dedicated, so there is a long line of drivers ahead of the newbies for these jobs in any trucking company.

* Not allowed to take the truck home: I'm OK with that. I can commute the 70 miles each way surrounding my home time. Question: When I leave the truck at the terminal/drop yard, I should probably take all of my stuff out of the truck for those three or four days, right? To me, that would be more of hassle than driving the 70 miles home.

* 10,000 - 12,000 miles per month promised: That's what the company's recruiters told me. I asked them if that number of miles is realistic in today's economy. They said that they are very busy, regardless. Their primary freight is new carpet and furniture; contract freight with the likes of Wal-Mart, Pier 1 Imports, Conlins Furniture, and others; also lumber, beer, wine, and other commodities.

* 60% - 90% drop-and-hook: One of the company's recruiters told me it's 60%, another one told me it's 90%, so I have to assume reality is somewhere in between.

* Type of trailer: I would be pulling dry vans.

* Lifestyle issues: I am unmarried with no kids and very little family. Most of my relatives are deceased. So while sure, I'd like to get home regularly and often, it's not a huge deal for me not to.

* CR England: Yes, from reading CAD, I know to avoid them like the plague.

* When I think of OTR, what comes to mind? Some positives like having a degree of independence that one does not have in a white-collar corporate job and seeing our great country, which I have seen so little of. Also, the negatives that I have read about on CAD all these years. This is why I am weighing my decision very carefully and getting as much input from you experienced drivers as I can.

* Visiting truck stops and talking with drivers there: I am going to do exactly that within the next few days. There is a big TA truck stop in the southwest portion of Las Vegas. Nearby this truck stop is the Las Vegas terminal of the company that I am considering, so I can kill two birds with one stone during one day.

* Trucking company promises: Yes, from what I have read on CAD, I know to take what recruiters say with a grain of salt.

* Driving record: Two tickets (speeding, left turn violation) when I was a college kid and in my early 20s, one DUI 13 years ago, and no accidents lifetime. Perfectly clean since the DUI.

Thank you all again for your invaluable input. Keep it coming. Be safe and drive safely throughout this holiday season and all year long.

[AC120]

RiN --

Sounds great. It's a real pleasure to read the words of a grown-up. Keep the questions coming.
Do you want some references to books about truck drivers/the life/trucking? They'd just be background for you--asking real people real questions is the best way to learn, but I'll post them if you like.

[Retired in Nevada]

Originally Posted by AC120

RiN --

Sounds great. It's a real pleasure to read the words of a grown-up. Keep the questions coming.
Do you want some references to books about truck drivers/the life/trucking? They'd just be background for you--asking real people real questions is the best way to learn, but I'll post them if you like.

Yes, AC120, please post or PM to me the references that you mentioned.

Thank you.

[AC120]

OK --

"Truck Stop" by Bryan Di Salvatore and Marc F. Wise.
An essay by each writer and portraits of truckers by Mr. Wise. Bryan's (first name because I trade emails with him from time to time) essay is the best thing I've EVER read about the trucking life.

"Pedal to the Metal" by Lawrence J. Ouellet. On the way to a PhD in sociology, Ouellet logged 800,000 miles in big rigs. He poses two questions: Why do truck drivers work so hard even when the effort doesn't result in money or other material gains? and How do truckers make sense of their behavior to themselves and to the outside world? In one form or another, those questions get asked here at CAD. In part, I'm here because the answers interest me. I drove for ten years, but I've never quite let go of OTR; I think--I hope--my memoir about it will be published (not self-published) next year. I've got a nibble from HarperCollins.

"A Thousand Miles From Nowhere" by Graham Coster. Coster rode with truckers in Europe and the U.S.

"Sweatshops on Wheels" by Michael H. Belzer. Economics and sociology. Belzer drove tank trucks in regional OTR operations, logging more than 750,00 miles, before settling in to an academic life.

"Driver--Six Weeks in an Eighteen-Wheeler" by Phillip Wilson. Wilson's memoir of his training days.

"Everything You Will Ever Need to Know to Start Driving a Big Truck or How I Became a Professional Tourist" by Steve Richards.

In "Uncommon Carriers" John McPhee has two chapters on an American tanker yanker. Great stuff.

I posted these instead of a PM because--maybe--someone else will be interested too. You can go to Amazonbooks.com to learn about them and buy them or not; I think they're all available used.

I hope this helps a bit. Want-to-be drivers should do what you're doing: thoroughly research carriers and the industry and ask questions at CAD.

[Mike Hunt]

Some of these guys are telling you what you want to hear. First of all, the starting wages are too low even for new-hires. Figure .26 cpm out of the gate is a slap in the face. And .37 top-rate after 3-4 years?!?!? You can get more than .38 cpm after 2 years at a company like Schneider and top rate is over .42 cpm.

Another thing is that hauling carpets sucks because most of that stuff isn't palletized. The rolls are floor-loaded and stacked high to the trailer ceiling. This makes getting them out time-consuming and a PITA.

Delivering to Wal-Mart stores and retail outlets such as Pier 1 sucks. Lots of delays and lots of BS...some of those Pier 1's are located in strip malls and are difficult to get into with a 53' trailer. You will probably be required to lump the freight at some of these places, which will not be fun in the Nevada heat.

I would stay away from this company. The mileage is unrealistic, the pay is low, and the freight they haul is some of the most heavily-discounted tariffs in the biz. But if you have nothing going for yourself it might be OK. I would seriously look elsewhere, tho.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Retired in Nevada

* Not allowed to take the truck home: I'm OK with that. I can commute the 70 miles each way surrounding my home time. Question: When I leave the truck at the terminal/drop yard, I should probably take all of my stuff out of the truck for those three or four days, right? To me, that would be more of hassle than driving the 70 miles home.

Unless the company does slip seating it should not be a problem to leave most of your personal things in your truck. Slip seating is where someone else drives your truck when you are out of it for more than a couple of days. From your post I doubt that is the case. I would address that question to the carrier you are speaking about. And you are right, it would be a bit of a hassle to be taking your personal things out for only 3 or so days. I would take my personal computer or other easily transported high dollars items. There may be mechanics who will move your truck or do maintenance work while you are home. Most are trustworthy but there might be some who are not. When I drove someone else's truck I would leave everything in it but my laundry. That was before I had a laptop.

Originally Posted by Retired in Nevada

* 10,000 - 12,000 miles per month promised: That's what the company's recruiters told me. I asked them if that number of miles is realistic in today's economy. They said that they are very busy, regardless. Their primary freight is new carpet and furniture; contract freight with the likes of Wal-Mart, Pier 1 Imports, Conlins Furniture, and others; also lumber, beer, wine, and other commodities.

I would say those figures are somewhat accurate. I would expect you to average about 2,500-2,800 miles per week on average. Some weeks you may not do as well and others could result in more miles. If you run coast to coast your weekly miles could be higher. During the slower winter months your miles could drop between 1,700-2,200 per week. It is difficult to average over 3,000 miles per week on a continuous basis. You will lose some time loading and unloading. It will help keep your miles up to do more drop and hook. You will want to take a day or two off now and then so that could change your miles around.

Originally Posted by Retired in Nevada

* Visiting truck stops and talking with drivers there: I am going to do exactly that within the next few days. There is a big TA truck stop in the southwest portion of Las Vegas. Nearby this truck stop is the Las Vegas terminal of the company that I am considering, so I can kill two birds with one stone during one day.

* Trucking company promises: Yes, from what I have read on CAD, I know to take what recruiters say with a grain of salt.

* Driving record: Two tickets (speeding, left turn violation) when I was a college kid and in my early 20s, one DUI 13 years ago, and no accidents lifetime. Perfectly clean since the DUI.

Talking with those currently working for any company that you are considering is your best source of accurate up to date information. In addition to the TA there is a Flying J and Petro in Las Vegas. TA tends to cater more toward the larger fleets while Flying J seems to have more owner operators. If there is a terminal near the TA you may be able to talk with some of their drivers. Some recruiters are honest and others are not. I usually take what they say with a grain of salt until proven otherwise. Current drivers will be your best source of information. I think your DUI and tickets are too old to cause you any problem with most carriers. There are a few that will not hire anyone with a DUI in their past regardless of how long ago.

[scythe08]

One thing I wanted to state was that unless you are a dedicated run and even then there might be exceptions, Everyone can promise you miles but almost no one can guarantee them! I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, just that I have heard the same sales pitch from every recruiter I've talked too.

You also might want to check out the Petro on the North side of Vegas as it is(IMO) alot cleaner and safer than the T/A. Reading your OP, I'd say alot of companies would fit that bill, Just hang with it for 6 months or a year, get your truckings under you and keep your record clean and that will open up alot of doors for you later on. I had to spend over 2 years on the road and then 6 months running Dbles and triples at night in the damn snow to get with the Company I'm with now. It still isn't as good as a major LTL barn, but my attitude is too piss-poor to deal with them, so I leave them to other hard-working drivers who have better attitudes.

I actually have considered going back to OTR. I'm still single and alone and if I got rid of my APT and all my bills, I could bank some good money for a few years and go back to school or put a huge down payment on a house or just invest it. But I just have a problem with the being taken atvantage of, which seems to be prevalent with the Industry. I know there are good companies and I work for one of them now, but My full-time went to part-time. Guess I shouldn't complain as I still have a job, but it's starting to scare me.


Anyway Best of luck to you and when you start with your new company, post a thread on it. I'm sure We'd all like to share in your adventures.

Chris

[GMAN]

I would also be suspicious of anyone who stated that they would guarantee a certain number of miles each and every week. They can give you a fleet average but it would be foolish for any recruiter to guarantee you a certain number of miles. The exception may be if you were on a dedicated account going to the same places each week. That is not likely to happen with a new recruit. Business runs in cycles. Some times of the year you can do better or worse than other times. It is rarely the same each week. Most carriers are not doing as well as we would like.

[belpre122]

Originally Posted by Mike Hunt

Basically your average run-of-the-mill OTR carrier. Toss a dart, they're all the same. Expect to perform lots of freebies: drive for free, work for free, wait for free. Mileage pay sucks, so does percentage of the load. They're piece-rate pay structures designed to rob you of your valuable time.

.29 cpm starting wage is a joke. There were company drivers at Kimberly Clark back in 1985 getting .25 cpm.

Welcome to OTR coolie carrier trucking. It's a good job if you've got nothing. Otherwise, there's no money or future in it. Just long hours and low rates/wages and lots of headaches and getting jerked around by dispatch/brokers/shippers/recievers/LEO's and never seeing home. An hourly daycab job is the best. Haul US mail, LTL, foodservice, private fleet, union gig, tankers...whatever. Either that or stay away from trucking altogether. Nothing but a big labor racket. Got a good contract/rate/gig/run? Someone sooner or later will be around to undercut you and haul whatever you're moving for nothing. Now THAT'S truckin'!

Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure enjoying all this paid time at home for the holidays. If I were OTR I'd be in a truckstop right now along with the rest of the mobile homeless.

STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!

Mike.....I hope you don't mind that I went ahead`and corrected that typo for ya! Belpre:lol: