Here's the answer they give at "Ask the Law" (Ol' Blue USA).

 

Putting it simply-- NO

FMCSA regulations have no control over Shippers or Receivers.

I agree with Inmate also. Another option would be to declare an emergency and log it was such. Then drive to the first available safe location.

If the owner of the property advised the State Trooper they don't allow truck parking the State Trooper can't force them to do it. His/Her only option would be to escort the driver to a safe area.

I would agree to a point. As I said before shipper's & receiver's are under no obligation to obey FMCSA regulations. No such regulation exist. While I think there should be such regulations I don't see it happening any time soon.

kc0iv

 

Happened to me once. I was sitting at the receiver, and so far he had taken 5 hours.
So I called security at the receiver. Told them I was out of hours, would have to leave and someone would reschedule the delivery.
When? he asked.
I dunno.
Wait a minute, he said.
They started unloading me.

I wasn't really gonna leave. I figured there would be trouble on the receiving docks if someone pulled what I said I was going to do, and maybe I was right...I dunno. But I did call dispatch first and ask them if they would back me up; they said yes, so I proceeded with my little poker game! :lol:

 

Agreed.Agreed.I don't agree here. I'm proud of the driver in this account taking a stand and showing some backbone. I wish I had shown some backbone in more than one situation like this, and that was even before the stupid 14-hour rule really started to screw everything up. (I used to log all that time off duty, even though that was bullshit. I wasn't off duty.)

The property owner is under no obligation to allow you to stay in your truck if you're out of hours, but they can't FORCE you to drive it off their property. They can force you to leave the premises, but if your truck is parked in an inconvenient location, then they have the same recourse any other property owner would in that situation. If I park my car at a Wal-Mart store and refuse to move it, the manager can't FORCE me to move it. He can call a tow truck, and send the bill to the address associated with the license plate, and that's really all he can do. In the case of a company truck left on the property, the property owner can call the vehicle owner, and even the vehicle owner cannot FORCE a driver to break the law (the law trumps Jimmy Bob Hunt, no matter what he thinks of seeing his name on all those doors), so their only recourse would be to dispatch a driver to the scene who had enough hours to move it off the property, or allow it to be towed. Or the police escort thing works too. (They could fire the driver, but if they fired a driver for refusing to break the law, and the driver had a sufficiently solid paper trail, then that would be a court battle worth the effort to fight too.)

I'm not suggesting a driver should let it get as far as having someone send him a bill for a tow truck, or get himself fired, but I think this is a good opportunity for someone to be exceedingly polite and business-like while making a clear and unmistakable statement that we are tired of this bullshit. If nobody protests, nothing will ever change.

As annoying as the 14-hour thing is, its purpose was to put an end to the old days of logging all that time off duty. I'd rather see something in between the two extremes, so I could legally take real, legitimate breaks throughout the day to extend my 14 without having to get into the no man's land of split logging (some of the time I no longer log off duty really used to be off duty, and I stopped taking that time when the rules changed, and I've been a more tired truck driver ever since. I feel more pressure to keep going, because the Telltale Heart is ever present, ticking beneath the floorboards.) However, what I wish for is not the current reality. Within the current framework, I'm tired of everyone else in this industry trying to continue as though the HOS rules had never changed, and you could still detain a man for 6 hours with no consequence. I want there to be consequences to everyone, and I want the driver to get PAID a fair wage for all this detention time too.

I didn't worry about a lot of this stuff at my old company, because they treated me right. Now that I'm out in the big pond, in the "real world" of trucking, with fleets large enough to require more than two digits for truck numbers, the longer I stay out here (been out here three months now, I guess) the more strongly I feel it is time to stand up for what is right, and quit looking the other way. We have lost our way as an industry, and we're letting it happen to us, because we don't fight back. We're too scared to get fired, get a bad DAC report, miss a house payment, so we bend over, grab our ankles, and try not to cry out when they shove it in, time after time.

I know, I know, it's the same old "we should organize a protest" speech. Next February 31st, nobody buy gas at Petros, that'll show the bastards. I realize we will probably never organize, never unify, and collectively never stop grabbing our ankles. But I, for one, am through grabbing my ankles. I'm at a point where I don't give a damn anymore. You want to fire me over something like this, BRING IT ON! Getting kicked out of the trucking club would not be the end of my ability to survive, and therefore the trucking club does not have me by the balls.

Maybe it just takes one truck driver at a time growing a backbone.

 

Silvan , for the life of me I can't see what you are advocating.

You're going to "stand up" to some security guard in hopes that DOT ( who never met the guard) will hear about it and change the rules?.........nah...

If you are going to run out of hours, just tell 'em all you gotta go and go. Take a shower. Watch a movie. Read a book.

'Least that's the way I see it. :?

 

Ok...simply put. §390.13 Aiding or abetting violations.

No person shall aid, abet, encourage, or require a motor carrier or its employees to violate the rules of this chapter.

 

This is where I found that there regulation;



Part 390: General

Part Regulation Guidance
Subpart A - General Applicability and Definitions
390.1 Purpose
390.3 General applicability Yes
390.5 Definitions Yes
390.7 Rules of construction
Subpart B - General Requirements and Information
390.9 State and local laws, effect on Yes
390.11 Motor carrier to require observance of driver regulations
390.13 Aiding or abetting violations
390.15 Assistance in investigations and special studies Yes
390.16 [Reserved]
390.17 Additional equipment and accessories.
390.19 Motor carrier identification report.
390.21 Marking of CMVs Yes
390.23 Relief from regulations Yes
390.25 Extension of relief from regulations - emergencies
390.27 Locations of motor carrier safety service centers.
390.29 Location of records or documents
390.31 Copies of records or documents Yes
390.33 Commercial motor vehicles used for purposes other than defined
390.35 Certificates, reports, and records: falsification, reproduction, or alteration
390.37 Violation and penalty
Subpart C - [Removed and Reserved]
Subpart D - [Removed and Reserved] [Change Notice]
Related Links
Disclaimer

 

FMCSA does not give the right to anyone to trample on a property owner's rights. If I as a private property owner ask you to leave, you must leave. Does that mean you have to drive off? No. You can walk, but I'm sure your truck will be towed. Then you will have to pay the tow company towing and impound fees. But if a driver starts bringing attitude to the owner or security, it's just going to end badly for the driver. As the driver has no right to stay when requesyed to leave. The local police are not going to know or care about FMSCA. Here is the Texas penal code regarding trespass. Most states are similar to this.

30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

 

Well said, Sylvan. This has been an informative discussion for me. I really do hope more truckers take a stand and start to take back this industry and put it back on a good course. If we'd all unite with that common goal the entire trucking world could be changed.

 

[quote="Orangetxguy"]I'm sorry but you have mis-applied section 390.13.

As greg3564 explained in his post once a request you to leave you can be charged with CRIMINAL TRESPASS if you refuse to comply.

As to my statement "Declared Emergency" I should have said Adverse driving conditions as defined in 395.2.

As far as Hurricane Katrina and what rules were in effect. I was one of the thousands of drivers involved in the supply operations. I still have the exemption in my file.



kc0iv