You hit the nail on the head. Even though the rules is clear your D.O.T. (and many others) has decided to create their own law. I suspect if one looks up the statutes they will NOT find any such statute. It would be interesting if sometime in your discussion with FL. D.O.T. you would ask them to show you the statute. I suspect they can't produce such a rule.

Company rules is a totally different matter. They can add to any rule, as far as the additional rule is legal, they so desire. Just like the states can add to federal law.

The portion about "traveling short distances" would appear to be where a driver has NOT been relieved from work. Otherwise the first part of the guidance contradict the second part. I believe this is supported by the very next sentence - "The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden."

I do agree 100% with you on the FEDs getting involved. Then add in officer(s) that don't read the laws but go by what the they think the law should be and problems can really get out-of-hand.

Be safe and Have a great day.

kc0iv

 

I followed the link in that post, and question 26 was completely unrelated to this topic. Hence my question. I figured he was pulling the info from someplace else.

(There is no question 26 there. It's all like:
§383.5Administrator means the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administrator, the chief executive of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, an agency within the Department of Transportation.
Alcohol or "alcoholic beverage" means: (a) Beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, (b) wine of not less than one half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, or (c) distilled spirits as defined in
[blah blah blah])

 

I didn't link provide a link to the quoted material. Here's the link: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...&section=395.8 where I made the quote.

Sorry for not doing it in the first place.

Finding material in the guidance sections takes a little extra work. It is not as easy as finding the rules themselves.

kc0iv

 

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

Thats the question with the "guidance" from the FMCSR's. It came via the link in kc0iv's last post.

In a sense...it does seem a little contradictory....but then, the Fed has a way of taking a simple issue and turning it into a maelstrom of crap. When I was an Air Traffic Controller for the Army....the FAA Flight Rules were not written by pilots...but instead by "lawyers"....probably none of whom were pilots....and the wording of the rules was often contradictory as well. Might of just as well been written in Russian or better yet, ancient Latin.

Seems it would just be "simpler" to say a driver can operate a "bobtail" or unladen straight truck as a personal conveyance while off-duty, and be done with it...

:? 8)

 

I really don't see see a contradiction. When you break the guidance down to sections it really boils down to relieved from work vs not being relieved from work.

The wording might be better as they have done in other sections of the R&R.

kc0iv

 

Maybe "contradiction"/"contradictory".....isn't the best word 8) I think you said it best when you said the The wording might be better as they have done in other sections of the R&R. It certainly could have been worded in a simpler and better manner. 8)

 

The interpretation by the FL DOT, or additional rules by a company, nothwithstanding....

I believe the "keyword" is LADEN. The above seems to clearly state (to me) that it doesn't matter whether you are bobtail or dragging a box or tank, as long as you are NOT under a BOL.

 

do they make it an audio book. I don't read much.

 

You serious? 8)

I don't know about you but I'd be asleep at the wheel in 5-minutes listening to the R&R and guidance on the R&R. :shock: :lol:

 

you'll find that I am rarely serious. When I begin to rant and misspell words. That is when I am serious!