[BanditsCousin]

According to prepass website, ALL records are deleted/eliminated once the monthly bill gets paid. I dunno, thats just what the site says.

As far as the squabble above, my .02-

A few barriers will always exist. Shippers that don't have their act together will always cause delays. Speaking of delays, what about traffic in any metroplitan area? I do agree you can be screwed in an accident, but eliminating the papertrail is the only way to (partially) remedy this. Thats why I stopped using my Comdata card, because that has very accurate transaction descriptions and dates.

[golfhobo]

You know, you seem to have a know it all attitude for someone who has been driving "less than one year".

And you seem to be unable to read or comprehend "a little OVER one year." Small difference, I admit.... but nevertheless indicative of your comprehension skills.

I have REGULARLY posted my experience level throughout my posts. I've never tried to say I "knew it all" or had more "experience" than others. However, like a few others here, I quite often cite the regulations as support for my arguments. And I have NO problem reading and understanding those regs.

Your opinion of me is noted, and rightfully discounted.

Most of the post in this thread have been dead on as far as accuracy, and what can and will happen when you break the rules and get caught. But yet, you want to argue with those who have been there and done that. You go as far as to question others experience, or if they even know what they are talking about.

Wrong again. MOST of the posts on this thread have been somewhat contradictory of each other. I've paid attention to ALL of them. When someone pointed out a timestamp on my CAT scale ticket, I THANKED them for the "new" info. However, the thread began with someone talking about time stamps on fuel tickets, and I correctly pointed out that there are NO SUCH stamps on fuel tickets from the MAJOR truckstops.

Yes... I had to wonder if the person saying this actually drove a truck, since the fuel tickets from these major T/S's are all the same.... and DON'T have a timestamp on them.

It seems you are under the assumption that you can do as you want in this business, and no one will be the wiser because you have all the secrets of making things look legal, and therefore will not get caught.

Again... there have been many posts from experienced drivers here that show others do/have done the same. I RESPECT their opinions, good or bad, because I KNOW them (from their posts.) I don't know YOU from Adam (with your 43 posts.) YOU are the one making "assumptions." And you KNOW what that makes YOU.

That being said, here is my answer.

Yes I have seen the reports. I got one every month when I paid my Pre-Pass bill. They knew where I was better than I did.

The date, time, location, and sometimes mile marker are all listed for every time you go under a Pre-Pass receiver.

I asked a SIMPLE question.... you finally got around to the answer. Many people come on here making statements that they "heard" from someone else. I wanted to know if you had SEEN such reports, as "I" never claimed to HAVE seen them. I said what I KNEW about them from their website. YOU quoted NO authority for your statement.

Pre-Pass may not share it voluntarily (I bet a court order would get all the information), but the information is sent to the company which uses the unit. If during an audit Pre-Pass is found to be used, you can bet the DOT has the authority to ask to see the records if they want to.

I MENTIONED the "court order." As for DOT asking for the reports..... apparently my company is not concerned about it. Did YOU keep those reports in case YOU were asked for them? Besides.... someone here (or on another thread,) says DOT DOESN'T have the authority to ask for them JUST for an audit. Now.... who to believe.... YOU or THEM???

This thread started off talking about AUDITS, NO MENTION at that time about full blown CRIMINAL investigations in case of an accident. Which is why I said:

"Perhaps, we should point out the difference between a roadside "inspection" of documentation, and a company "audit." My company assures me that THEY know how to avoid a confrontation on an "audit." The inspector who punches data from my logbook and receipts into his computer, ONLY gets a "timeline" to see if I've logged things in the proper timeframe to avoid a speeding ticket."

P.S. If I had not SEEN the reports, then I would not have posted the information as first hand knowledge. I am not in the practice of posting here-say unless it is acknowledged as such.

As I said.... MANY come on here doing JUST that! You aren't in the HABIT of doing ANYTHING here.... with a mere 43 posts.

YOUR opinion of me don't mean squat to me! You haven't even earned the RIGHT to HAVE one, as far as I'M concerned!

Have a nice day, now! :wink:

[stranger]

Again with the attitude. I am sure you will get far in this life with your people skills.

My response was in direct reply to your in assumptions and smart remarks to me and others about our skills and knowledge of such matters.

Again you want to smart off because I only have 43 post. I watched this forum quite a while before I joined. I usually don't post unless I have something usefull to add, something some might learn to do also.

You seem to want to be confrontational and assumptive about others, and that is what irritated me. If this is not the case, and I misunderstood your post, then I apologize.

If I am right, then my opinions stand.

This started by you reading more into a post about Pre-Pass that I stated. I merely said that Pre-Pass has everything time stamped. The implication was that by running I-10 at a higher than posted speed in Louisiana, theoretically you could be charged with speeding since Pre-Pass records are so accurate. Will this happen, not very likely at all, but in extreme cases it could.

Years ago Arizona made you stop at each port of entry. Your permit and bills were time stamped. Again this next part is here-say, but I have heard from many drivers who "claimed" to have either been ticketed or harassed because of crossing the state too fast. I always stopped to keep my elapsed time under the then 55 MPH limit.

Those that ran back then maybe will post and tell me if this actually happened to them.

I don't want to get into a p--sing match about this, or whether we can even agree if the sun comes up or not. But if you want to continue, I will, though I see nothing to be gained from it.

We can agree to disagree about this thread and go on, or end up like others on this board who will fight with each other when ever the other post about anything. This makes both parties involved look childish.

By the way, I started driving in 1975. I am not a BBR or cowboy. I am merely a driver who tries to help other drivers with advice, and bring up alternative scenarios of what can happen when things go wrong.

I do not believe drivers should fudge their logs to help the company, because the company sure won't help you when you are caught. Yes I have made some "creative" marks in the past, but not for the past several years. There is too much to lose these days.

The ball is in your court. I made my remarks and offered an olive branch.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by stranger

Again with the attitude. I am sure you will get far in this life with your people skills.

And YOU continue with the insults and attitude.

My response was in direct reply to your in assumptions and smart remarks to me and others about our skills and knowledge of such matters.

Look again at the three simple lines of my first post to you. Yes, someone with a defensive attitude (or a mind made up about me) might think it was confrontational. But, there is nothing in the composition that betrays anything more than a question about where you got the info you posted. I never questioned ANYONE's "skills."

Again you want to smart off because I only have 43 post. I watched this forum quite a while before I joined. I usually don't post unless I have something usefull to add, something some might learn to do also.

You seem to want to be confrontational and assumptive about others, and that is what irritated me. If this is not the case, and I misunderstood your post, then I apologize.

Now, look at the first line of THIS/your post, and the first three paragraphs of your intitial resonse post to me. Who's being "insulting?" I, too "lurked" for a long time before joining in. I, too, try to post usefull information, but I admit, some of my post count is just having fun with the other contributors. And yes, I CAN be confrontational at times. Before coming here, I spent alot of time on a "political" forum. I like to debate, and at times even argue. I see nothing in the rules against it. I can honestly claim that very FEW of my posts have been insulting, and usually only then when I'm attacked.

If I am right, then my opinions stand.

And if you got "irritated" I'm sorry. Wasn't really my intention.

This started by you reading more into a post about Pre-Pass than I stated. I merely said that Pre-Pass has everything time stamped. The implication was that by running I-10 at a higher than posted speed in Louisiana, theoretically you could be charged with speeding since Pre-Pass records are so accurate. Will this happen, not very likely at all, but in extreme cases it could.

My interpretation of their website says it can't happen AT ALL.

One thing I've "realized" from this thread, is that there is a computer record of EVERYTHING we do.... or at least for as long as they keep them. But, I think that if a prepass record or fuel ticket shows that I was speeding, yet I'm not over my hours and I'm at a point that I could legally get to, I don't think I'd go to prison for speeding or fudging my books as long as I COULD be where I am when some idiot 4wheeler causes their own death. I COULD be wrong. But, I doubt it. For ONE thing, there's a thing called "malicious intent." Speeding AT THE TIME of a fatal accident CAN be an aggravating factor in sentencing, but I don't think that speeding 100 miles back can be proven to be the CAUSE of an accident at some future point.

Years ago Arizona made you stop at each port of entry. Your permit and bills were time stamped. Again this next part is here-say, but I have heard from many drivers who "claimed" to have either been ticketed or harassed because of crossing the state too fast. I always stopped to keep my elapsed time under the then 55 MPH limit.

Those that ran back then maybe will post and tell me if this actually happened to them.

And I have repeatedly said that I "mark" my logbook around ANYTHING that is timestamped.

I don't want to get into a p--sing match about this, or whether we can even agree if the sun comes up or not. But if you want to continue, I will, though I see nothing to be gained from it.

I don't either. But, I hope you will allow me the responses made in this post.

We can agree to disagree about this thread and go on, or end up like others on this board who will fight with each other when ever the other post about anything. This makes both parties involved look childish.

I agree.

By the way, I started driving in 1975. I am not a BBR or cowboy. I am merely a driver who tries to help other drivers with advice, and bring up alternative scenarios of what can happen when things go wrong.

I salute your experience. I don't consider myself a BBR or cowboy, either! I don't drive a 55 mph governed truck, so I don't have to PUSH my hours each day to get miles. To the contrary, I also must sometimes stop for a break (or at least show one) so that my partner can legally come out of the sleeper to do his driving after I've gotten my 650 miles or so a day. I appreciate your "scenarios." Personally, I spend MOST of my time on here correcting the mistakes of 20 year veterans who can't quote the regs properly for the newbies. Go figure!

I do not believe drivers should fudge their logs to help the company, because the company sure won't help you when you are caught. Yes I have made some "creative" marks in the past, but not for the past several years. There is too much to lose these days.

It's a fine line between whether "creative logging" helps the company more.... or the driver trying to make a living - or get to a good shutdown point. I share your concern about the changing tide of prosecution.

The ball is in your court. I made my remarks and offered an olive branch.

I'm not SURE if I would call some of those remarks an "olive branch," but I'll take your word for it! :wink:

And, in spite of my rebuttals, I hope you see an olive branch in my reply, as well. I don't think we have a major problem here.

[stranger]

And, in spite of my rebuttals, I hope you see an olive branch in my reply, as well. I don't think we have a major problem here.

I agree. We don't have a problem as far as I am concerned. I probably over reacted, as it was late and I was very tired last night when I first replied.

I hope you do well, and be safe driving.

[kc0iv]

stranger said:

I merely said that Pre-Pass has everything time stamped. The implication was that by running I-10 at a higher than posted speed in Louisiana, theoretically you could be charged with speeding since Pre-Pass records are so accurate. Will this happen, not very likely at all, but in extreme cases it could.

The problem with your argument is Pre-Pass is not linked between scales. So there would be no way for the second scale to know you were speeding. The only way someone could determine you were speeding would be through an audit or by way of a lawsuit. Even by these means I'm not sure a speeding ticket could be written. In the case of an audit you could be cited for illegal operation but I see no way a "speeding ticket" per se could be written.

A second problem is the arresting office was not present at the time of the offence. Many a speeding ticket was dismissed until the states passed laws allowing a second officer to write the ticket when a offence occurred that was observed from either a speed gun or aircraft. Many departments still have the officers pre-sign tickets when a second officer is used in these types of stops.

stranger said:

Years ago Arizona made you stop at each port of entry. Your permit and bills were time stamped. Again this next part is here-say, but I have heard from many drivers who "claimed" to have either been ticketed or harassed because of crossing the state too fast. I always stopped to keep my elapsed time under the then 55 MPH limit.

I can't say if Arizona did this or not. I do know in the old days when the Kansas turnpike was a private highway the turnpike authority would issue a ticket if the elaspe time showed you were speeding. The turnpike authority at that time had special police powers where the turnpike was involved. Today all this is handled by the Kansas highway patrol.

Creative logging happens everyday. It is a gamble and if you lose it can get expensive. I can see golfhobo point and I would assume he has weighted the risk and is willing to take that risk. I agree with some of his points and disagree with others. Untill the industry changes Creative logging will continue. If you can operate 100% legal I say well done. You have elected to take a reduction in income and that is fine by me. Other have weighted the cost and are willing to take the gamble. I'm retired. So my Creative logging days are over.

kc0iv

[stranger]

kc0iv wrote:

If you can operate 100% legal I say well done. You have elected to take a reduction in income and that is fine by me.

It's not too hard to stay legal with what I do now. I run two loads a night. They pay five hours each. I can run them in 9.5 easy if no traffic problems, plus I am local and don't use a log book, just a time sheet.

I started logging legal before I sold my last truck almost 3 years ago. After reading about drivers getting prison time after accidents, and with the VERY thorough log audits we had where I was leased, I decided I might just as well run as close to legal as possible.

With the Pre-Pass speeding tickets, I was only inferring that the time stamp was accurate enough that a person could get a ticket from them. The only time this would ever be noticed is in an extra tough audit where the DOT was out to prove a point, or by a trial lawyer looking for anything they could find.

I know of no case where these have been used, but anything is possible with the type of litigation that goes on these days.

[allan5oh]

In the case where the driver was found with several violations, in this case the carrier was supposed to catch these problems. If the carrier catches it, and remedies the situation(dreaded call to the safety department), I doubt the DOT will fine the carrier. It's about the carrier being responsible, not necessarily the violation itself.

My company checks qualcomm and satellite messages against the log. Not all the time, it seems to happen "randomly" (everyone seems to get the "letter" at the same time!) Rumors have it that there is a 2 hour leniency. That's quite the gap.

One of the drivers asked our safety department why they were being so strict with checking logs, etc.. Basically it boiled down to the fact that they wanted to protect their asses. Their "high priced" lawyers that they had to hire during a potential lawsuit said that the company must do everything within their power to make sure their drivers are running legal. If they aren't, then they are negligent and liable to a big lawsuit.

That "incident" I speak of happened about 3 years ago in Chicago, I'm sure some of you local guys remember it. Where one truck rammed a bus into another truck at a toll booth. Several people died. That second truck was our truck. Apparently our truck and trailer was gone over quite well. It was then realized that even if our truck was 1% responsible for the accident, say a bulb was burnt out, they could be sued. That scared the shit out of our safety department, and since then they've done everything in their power to cover their asses. I call them the liability sans safety department.

[ROCKYROAD]

[quote="Rev.Vassago"]

Originally Posted by Part Time Dweller

Slowing down, and logging it like you do it will raise rates IN THE LONG RUN. For those who can't understand this, please leave the industry, so that the process can actually work. :wink:

In the LONG RUN we are all DEAD :wink:

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I realize that I have only been driving a bit over a year now, but I have fueled at Petros, Love's, T/A's, Pilots and most other major and some independant Truckstops and not ONE of those tickets has a time stamp on it! (DATES, yes!)

The DOT has access to COMDATA's and other companies computer systems to validate the time stamp. Believe it, its a fact.

I also scale out at CAT locations whenever possible.... and not ONE of THOSE tickets has a time stamp on it!

But the transaction has timestamps on it, as does the corresponding cash register transaction. A simple phone call to the truckstop that printed the scale ticket will get the Hour, Minute, and Date of the transaction based on its number.

MOST receivers never timestamp my BOL's. However, MANY shippers (who use computers) DO!

Qualcomm and Mmax ld and mt calls are time stamped. We in the chemical tanker industry have a lot more timestamps than boxes do in general.

Sometimes, I have to wonder if SOME of y'all who are giving out this information, are ACTUALLY driving trucks for a living! :shock: :roll:

You know I am, or should know that... 8)

Lets not forget the EZPass time stamps, or the PrePass timestamps that show up on the invoices..... :shock: :shock: I have heard that the DOT can access the information, but others say they can't..... but I know a "Compliance Auditor" can because he's right there in the company's office and can look at everything that applies to drivers....

Keep it right, keep it tight...and keep your $$ in your pocket!!