Well, Sheepdancer,

To answer your first question.... YES!! Bear in mind that I speak as an employer and a CEO. My philosophy has always been, and remains,
Minimum Wage = Minimum Effort!!

As an employer, I have always seen "The Big Picture" as something more than the bottom line. I have worked in economically depressed parts of the country, and I have always strived to build my companies, but I have also strived to give the people who serve me the opportunity to build something for themselves.

That is why on my "Human Energy Flow Charts", (I have never had "Management Flow Charts") I have ALWAYS placed the customer at the very top, and that is why I have always structured, or restructured my companies not from the top down, but rather from the bottom up.

The more time and money I have spent building up the people who would, by most companies standards, be at "the bottom", the more they have worked to lift me up. In the end, everybody, and most importantly, the customer, always benefited. I have not only required my people to perform their jobs, but I have also required them to undergo training in both literacy, and financial literacy as well. They are also taught about the true cost of their employment, in terms of what we pay for our matcing of FICA, worker's comp insurance, health insurance, wellness programs, sick leave, anual leave, and joss in efficiency when they are out sick.

In the end, giving people the tools to go out and build a stake in life has always paid off in economic terms. Higher retention rates, reduced absenteeism, reduced turnover, increased quality, decreased wear and unnecessary damage to equipment and machinery, increased moral, and increased efficiency have always benefited the bottom line.

There is another problem with the question that you are posing, and that is that your question assumes that the stockholders (i.e.: the "owners" of a company) necessarily are the beneficiaries here; not so.

Over the past fifteen years, the CEO's and top management of even some of the worst performing companies now earn far more than the CEO's and top management of well performing companies did only a decade and a half ago.

When it comes to cutting compensation packages under the guise of "remaining competitive", the fat cats at the top always start at the very bottom; you don't see their compensation packages being reduced.

I have always believed that when the people of a society believe that they have no stake in their society, they will set about to destroy it.

Now, I have said this before, and I will say it once again; I have been blessed with far more success's in life than I ever deserved. Statistically, I should be homeless, drunk, drugged out, in prison, dead, or any combination of those things.

Also, as I near the Big Five-OH!!, my sense of mortality increases. Just like ol' Johnny Bryant Hunt, When I go to meet my maker and stand in judgement for all I have done, and all I have failed to do, I won't be able to take so much as a dime with me. At the same time, I will be able to say that I tried to do for others as well as my family and myself.

This notion that drivers must be paid such depressing wages for the hours worked is nothing but a load of crap being shoveled down the throats of middle class America. The cats at the top sure don't miss meals, do they??

Much more that I could say, but I just got back from the oral surgeon's office this afternoon, the pain killer is wearing off, the pain medicine has yet to kick in, and I'm loaded for bear. So, if I sound a bit testy, Sheepdancer, please allow me the benefit of doubt and know that what I'm saying is not directed as something against you!!

Peace, Useless

 

Scania: What do you consider "experienced?" Today's trucking world is made up of more drivers with less than 5 years experience than those with more. (and this trend is increasing due to retirements.) Do you realize that a government employee, (GS-13) in MOST agencies, with 20 years experience is making less than $70k?

A manager of a fast food restaurant, on call the better part of 18 hours a day, makes less than $40k if they have less than 5 years experience.

Look at what school teachers are paid. Police.... Firemen..... Soldiers.

All you/we have to do is drive a truck, back into a dock, and fill out some paperwork! This is the easiest job I've EVER had! And, I hate to admit it, but the biggest paycheck. (And I've worked for Defense Contractors!)

Several posters have mentioned "salaried" jobs. Think of this as a salary. Don't count the 10+ hours a day spent sleeping, or the time wasted playing video games in a T/S, or eating, etc. and how many hours do you REALLY spend working? Don't you waste this same time if at home? Difference is... most truckers want to get PAID for it just because they are away from home. THAT is the adjustment that needs to be made to accept this field of work.

USXRecruiter: Drivers A, B and C are "job hopping" because companies A, B and C don't offer good/reasonable pay and benefits, and more importantly.... don't stand behind the commitments made by their recruiters. By your own admission, drivers aren't getting what they were PROMISED.

Set a reasonable pay scale. Provide the miles and payments that you promise. Treat your drivers like your business DEPENDS on them.... because it does. And you won't HAVE all this job hopping! Like someone said.... hire and cultivate happy employees and you won't have to spend millions recruiting, training, advertising and fixing trucks!

Even YOU say the business is "competitive." That is because, to YOU (or any company) you have to constantly "compete" for drivers. Therefore, there IS a driver shortage for YOU and your company (and all others.) You wouldn't HAVE to do this, if you knew the FIRST thing about "retaining" employees.

Someone said that us "dumb" drivers don't really CARE about benefits. TRY us! Fact is... we've all been conditioned to NOT expect any, so we look at the PAY we can get so we can afford our OWN!

I'm not picking on YOU, anymore than I'm questioning Sheepdancer, or praising Skywalker! I've learned alot from ALL of you on this thread! And what I've learned is this:

Like ANY "deregulated" industry, you all can fight over a suspicious consumer (and swap us off like so many used cellphone users)... or you can REGULATE yourselves! Don't look at US as the problem! The problem lies with you!

If you tell a man he can make "X" amount of dollars, don't "bait and switch" him! PAY him!!! And treat him like a valued part of your business!

You JUST might find out that that's ALL he wanted to BE in the first place!

Hobo

 

Tough to think of a production-oriented, piece-meal job such as OTR trucking where you're predominantly paid by the mile to a salary job. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Instead, think of it as an hourly job (which most production-related jobs are compensated as). Now consider all of the unpaid hours you spend on the job. Then think about what's missing from your paycheck IF you were paid for all of those hours.

Toss into the mix overtime after 40 hours on the job and it'll really make your head spin.

Key words being "at home".

 

 

DOUBLE-POST

 

I have no clue what the numbers stack up to be in the trucking idustry . . . but as far as recruting for the US Army is concerned, it's 100:1 . . . recruiters talk to 100 and 1 ends up shipping to Basic Training.

 

[quote="Skywalker"]
I don't think the huge turnover in drivers is totally a function of pay and benefits.

A big part of the problem is that the job of truck driver . . . especially OTR . . . is very unique. There are very few jobs that compare to the isolation, separation, level of responsibility, risk of injury and the need for personal initiative.

Aircraft pilots, for example, generally work in pairs or as part of "crews." The truck driver generally spends many hours alone.

Salesmen perform their most critical skills with people . . . again, the driver performs his most critical skills in isolation.

Ironically, although the requirements are unique, the tasks of operating a truck can be taught easily . . . so there's a weird disconnect there of sorts . . . it's tough to find the right type of people to be experienced professional drivers . . . but it's relatively easy to train them to be new drivers.

So . . . I suspect that it's financially more beneficial to train ten and keep one than to perform extensive psychological testing and background investigations on the ten and hope to find one.

That's why the first year is a sort of industry standard . . . and why many companies demand even more (like 2 or 3 years) . . . if you can pass that "test" then you've got the characteristics needed to drive.

I think you have to be careful and separate drivers into two categories: Those with 3 or more years of experience . . . and those with less.

I suspect . . . don't know, just suspect . . . that the experienced driver is making pretty good money. It's we newbies that are getting hosed . . . and mostly that's because we don't understand exactly what we're getting into.

 

You make some good points. And the reasons for one company having problems recruiting drivers may be quite different than another company recruiting drivers.... There are many reasons why this industry is not good, and precious few reasons why they are not being corrected.

Its like the job that I do now, pulling a non-baffled tanker... some people won't even consider it....because the tractors aren't the biggest and plushest. Also they can't relate or figure out how you can get a good paycheck without lots and lots of miles....but the truth is: its not about the miles all the time. And some people just can't handle "surge" or learn how to control it. But yet, chemical/hazmat tanker drivers are probably the highest paid of all non-union drivers..and they are generally home far more often than 90% of other drivers... Go figure, but still tanker companies are looking for drivers.

Its not that "neophyte drivers" are getting hosed....its that they often times don't do what is known as "due dilligence" and thoroughly investigate what they are getting into....and even when they are told things they don't want to hear.... they are so "star-crossed" and have visions of sugar-plums and all that crap......they just don't listen, then end up miserable and facing the fact that they walked into the snake pit all by themselves...even though they were warned not to do it.

Frankly, the reason why 3year + drivers make more and are in serious demand...is because they are considered "committed drivers". They have survived the 3 worst years of their lives probably, and have acclimated to the job....and are obviously planning on staying with it a lot longer.

Tons of new people enter this industry....and they do it maybe for the wrong reasons...and they find out that its far more demanding than they expected, and so they leave it almost as quickly as they entered, and sadly....the majority of the companies in this industry are virtually "clueless" as to how to actually hire and train new drivers and keep them.

 

You operate a machine (the truck) with your pay based on how many miles you crank out. The more miles you run, the bigger your paycheck (hence all the cheating on logbooks). If the machine sits, you get $0.00 on your paycheck because you haven't PRODUCED any miles/revenue for that period.

Most salaried employees are in management because their compensation isn't directly tied to production. Instead, it's mostly based on directing a group of employees to do their jobs. That's why you can't really compare a salried job to a production job.

The strange thing about OTR trucking is that it's a production-oriented job which is EXEMPT from overtime after 40 hours.

Granted, you go to different places but do you not perform repetitve tasks such as shifting, braking, backing, and driving the truck for extended periods (up to 11 hours at time)?

So if a task is REQUIRED by your employer and is PART OF THE JOB like you say, shouldn't you be paid for performing such activities? Imagine if you got paid for all dock time and for fueling the truck, scaling loads, dropping/hooking trailers, breakdowns, etc? You would still get your mileage pay PLUS money for those "part of the job" activities that are REQUIRED by your employer. Now think how much BIGGER your paychecks would be and how much money you're giving away by working for free.

I make about the same money with much better benefits working 45-50 hrs per week at an LTL job than I did working 80-100 workweeks and living out of a truck in OTR.

Absolutely. I think it's good to have lively debates. Merry Xmas to you and yours as well.

 

Okay... I LOVE to travel. One of the jobs I thought about getting once, was (I don't know the correct title) let's say Hotel Service Auditor. I would travel around a "region" checking into hotels in the Happy Hotel Chain. I would then submit audits on their levels of "service" and "accomodations."

I drove a stickshift auto at the time. So.... I'd be driving thousands of miles, shifting repetitively, braking when needed, parking several times a day, and doing paperwork on how helpful the pretty girl was that checked me in, or served me my Coors Light!. My reports would directly affect the careers of those hotel employees.

For this, I was to be paid a salary. It never ONCE crossed my mind to want to get PAID for stopping to put fuel in the car, or any of the other "necessary" tasks.

Hmmm.... okay. I've "imagined" it. And I IMAGINE that the company would ADJUST my mileage pay downward to compensate for getting paid for each and every little task. Face it... they're only going to pay a certain "percentage" of THEIR freight charge income for MY job.

I certainly can't argue that companies should provide better, and more equal, benefits for ALL drivers. However... if you were WORKING 80-100 hour weeks in OTR, you were driving/working illegally.

My point EXACTLY is that you are not "working" when you are in the sleeper berth, or eating, or playing video games in the truckstop.

I drive east coast to west coast and back every week (in about 5 days - team.) When I get home, my totals for line 3 and 4 rarely exceed 50 hours.

LTL is great for people who want/need more hometime, no doubt. But, to ME... even THAT would get boring. I don't want to run the SAME short distances day in and day out, leaving at the same time, getting home at the same time, seeing the SAME trees and ditches every day. Also... in my case... I live in the Southeast "region." I hate it down here. I don't want to be "trapped" in this region as I would under your circumstances. I also don't want to do tiny little docks behind stores, NOR unload my own truck.

Last week, I went gambling in Vegas. Week before, I dined while watching the sun set over the Pacific in Redondo Beach. A few months ago, I rented a car and drove up and down the Pacific coast near Portland, OR. Some trip soon... I will leave 12 hours early so that I can stop in Williams, AZ and take the train up to the Grand Canyon.

NONE of this sounds, to ME, like standing across a production line every day from "Fred" who's nose hairs are getting longer every day. :lol:

Give me the open road. Give me a load and tell me where and when you need it there. Everything that happens in between is part of my job, ususally up to ME to decide, and at the very least.... not gonna be boring.

Getting back on topic a bit.... If companies set pay scales for EVERY little task, drivers will constantly be looking for a company that will pay them to take a shower. Give a man a good paycheck and benefits, allow him more responsibility, and DO what you tell him you will do.... and you won't be turning over drivers constantly.