[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Useless

If Giuliani had been able to complete his bid for the Senate back in 2000, I think that he would have gone on to defeat HRC. I also think that he would be on a solid path for a run for POUTS. Sadly for Giuliani, cancer is an equal opportunity employer. Unfortunately, while I believe that he has the makings of a good candidate, I'm afraid that due to his battle with Cancer, he is now too far behind the curve in terms of fund raising abilities.

I disagree with this. I think the fact that he was still mayor in September of 2001 brought his name to the general public, many of whom did not know who he was. That is his greatest asset for the uninformed - people know him.

Now, after the mid-term elections last week, it has clear that the dynamics of political power have shifted, but at this point, no one knows how the Republican party will deal with the changing political atmosphere.

I agree, but the fact that Arnold won yet again in California shows that the Republican VOTERS are demanding a more "centered" party.

[qutoe]One problem is that HRC has now established herself as a formidable political force, and when you combine her fund raising abilities with those of her husband, and add their political base to the equation, the possibilities of her running as either a Presidential candidate, or as a running mate have to be viewed as quite strong.[/quote]

While I could agree with this "in principle", I think she has a serious strike against her just because of the fact that she is a woman. I believe there are many in the Democratic party (particularily the more conservative side) that are not ready to elect a woman as POTUS. Also, she is pretty far to the left of the Democratic party, which also is a strike against her. Even with a strong running mate, that doesn't necessarily mean she will be able to win. Look at Kerry/Edwards. Edwards was a strong running mate, and yet it wasn't enough to get Kerry elected. I think most voters who follow politics realize that the VP is not going to make or break a candidate. I think if HRC was on a ticket as a VP, she would have a better chance. But that will never happen.

Another problem that I see is that unless the Republican party adopts a more centrist, moderate tone, then Giuliani's chances of being able to get the Republican nomination will be severely compromised. The Ultra Conservative, hard right factions of The Republican party, and particularly the more fundamentalist Christian right, are not going to suddenly become silent, and they will remain as a substantial economic force within the party.

I think this last election has shown even the far right that they do not control the party as well as they thought they did. I expect them to slip into the shadows over the next 2 years.

Consequently, the Republicans seem poised for some serious trouble. Unless the Republican party is willing to moderate many of it's positions, and allow the more moderate Repbublican voices to speak freely, then it is unlikely that the voters who turned them out of office less than a week ago will suddenly embrace them and return them to office two years from now.

I agree, and in some cases, I think it would be a good thing.

At the same time, given that The Republican party relies so heavily on the extreme right for financial support, the prospects of The GOP being able to moderate it's tones and positions for the run in 2008 are reduced before they even make it out of the gate.

I disagree, just because I am sure the extreme right would rather have SOME Republican in office than not.

The Democrats are now showing significant signs of allowing more centrist positions. This was shown when several conservative Democrats were elected, but even more so by the fact that The Democratic Party realized that they were going to have to fund and support them in order to recapture Capitol Hill. For that reason, like it or not, agree or disagree, for better or for worse, I think that the Democrats will be left with a very strong upper hand going into the race for the Oval Office.

While the Democrats ran on the idea of working together with the Republicans, their actions since last Tuesday have shown otherwise. I think you will find that the Democrats are going to get power hungry over the next 2 years (not unlike what happened within the Republican party), and they will end up shooting themselves in the foot. Given the fact that many Democrats are "fiscally conservative", I don't think they will be able to obtain control of both the Congress and the Presidency. A good portion of their constituency will not allow this.

The other problem is that they Democrats did not run on any legitimate issues. They used a lot of "catch phrases", and didn't have a lot of substance. On top of that, they used the "perceived" disdain for Bush and the war to edge their way into office.

Speaking for myself, I think that Ret. Gen. Colon Powell and former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani would make an awesome ticket. Both would make excellent choices for President or Vice President. Sadly, as it now stands, I don't believe that the Republican Party will allow it to happen.

I don't think Powell is a good choice, only because of his involvement in the war. The Democrats will use that to their advantage. I personally think a Giuliani/McCain ticket would be better. Nice and "centered", yet they still support traditional Republican issues.

One good thing that has happened is that John Kerry has irrevocably flushed his own prospects for The White House down the toilet!!

Thank goodness. :wink:

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Useless

If Giuliani had been able to complete his bid for the Senate back in 2000, I think that he would have gone on to defeat HRC. I also think that he would be on a solid path for a run for POUTS. Sadly for Giuliani, cancer is an equal opportunity employer. Unfortunately, while I believe that he has the makings of a good candidate, I'm afraid that due to his battle with Cancer, he is now too far behind the curve in terms of fund raising abilities.

The Rev.:

I disagree with this. I think the fact that he was still mayor in September of 2001 brought his name to the general public, many of whom did not know who he was. That is his greatest asset for the uninformed - people know him.

[color=darkblue]Useless:

In terms of his leadership abilities, particularly on 9-11 and the days and weeks that followed, I agree whole heartedly with you. I think we saw one of New York's finest men at his finest hour. But can he translate that into cash in his political war chest?? I'm not saying that it can not be done, but I'm not so sure here, either. I'd love to think that you are correct on this point!!

The fact is that HRC already has a sizeable war chest amassed, and, IMO, a party that would back her solidly. She also has Bill Clinton on her side as well. Now, love Bill Clinton or hate him, the fact is that he is an extremely powerful fundraiser. In that respect, Guliani, or any other Republican, faces a fairly serious financial handicap.

Useless:

One good thing that has happened is that John Kerry has irrevocably flushed his own prospects for The White House down the toilet!!

The Rev:

Thank goodness. :wink:[/quote]

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Useless

The Rev:

I don't think Powell is a good choice, only because of his involvement in the war. The Democrats will use that to their advantage. I personally think a Giuliani/McCain ticket would be better. Nice and "centered", yet they still support traditional Republican issues.

Useless:

Well, Rev, there I see things differently. I think that history has shown us that Powell was an effective military leader, and when you look at his roll as Secretary of State, I think that he has shown himself to be on the right side of that issue as well.

The very reason that he is no longer Secretary of State is because he tried to Tell Bush that Rumsfeld's strategies would lead us into a situation where we would have no exit strategy. Ultimately, as we all know, Bush sided with Rumsfeld, and Powell's standing as secretary of State was marginalized.

In the end, I personally believe that we should have listened to Gen. Powell, and I think that many other voters would agree with me here.

Consequently, I think that Powell's chances are better than you think, except for one major problem: HE WON'T RUN!!

Useless:

The Rev.:

Thank goodness. :wink:

[Useless]

Rev.,

To address a couple of other point that you made:

I think that you MAY BE right on about the idea of a McCain/Giuliani ticket, or a Giuliani/McCain ticket, but that can only happen if the hard right factions of the G.O.P. are willing to accede to the moderate voices in the party.

Even if they are, I think that they would face a very tough challenge from HRC.

As far as the V.P. running mate is concerned, I think that both HRC or Giuliani would, in fact, provide strength to their respective party's ticket. New York is a very heavy player in the Electoral College, and either party could stand to benefit from this.

The biggest drawback I see for McCain is his age; he is now 70 y/o, would be 72 y/o by the time Nov. '08 rolls around. That would make him the oldest President ever elected to office.

[One]

OBAMA FOR PREZ AND HILLARY AS VP!!!!

[Useless]

Originally Posted by One

OBAMA FOR PREZ AND HILLARY AS VP!!!!

On one hand, I'm not so sure about Obama; many people had never heard of him until about a month ago. He's only 45 y/o, probably too young for most people's preference. He's only been in the Senate for about two years, so he really can't be classified as a "hard hitter".

On the other hand, back in Nov. of 1991, many people across the nation had never heard of a Governor from Arkansas named Bill Clinton either!!

I do think that Obama is certainly a rising star, though!!

[Rev.Vassago]

The REAL winner in 08:

[Useless]

OOHH-KAY!!

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming!!

[kreeper01]

Just what we need is more Democracy running rampant on this country. While those Jacka*#es have the majority of seating in the house, good gravy, before long WW3 might start if it hasn't started already.

[ken_o]

none of the above, its time for a change and not one with a R or a D before the name. this 2 party circus is old allready.
how about a libertarian with a little common sense.