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Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 462899)
I never called myself an extremist, a fundamentalist or obsessed." Although you could probably classify me as a fundamentalist. I believe in the Bible and one GOD. I am not sure about the other two. I tend to speak my mind and don't deviate from my basic beliefs. I don't think that makes me obsessed or an extremist. I don't try to force my beliefs on others. An extremist would attempt to force others to believe as he does. I don't do that.
My point was that you talk about "extremists" and the "obsessed," yet YOU fit your own definition of them if you would just look at what you say at times. What the Rev quoted from you about HITLER is a prime example! That is taking this argument, and your dislike for Obama, to the EXTREME. In nearly EVERY post you make about him, you continue to claim that Obama is both a Muslim AND a Socialist..... although I can't think of any real world example where those two ideologies actually CO-EXIST. :roll: In THAT way.... you show your OBSESSION. I don't know if you actually believe all the stuff you say about him, but if you do.... that shows a marked PARANOIA (which is a combination of obsession and extremism.) You remind me of Sean Hannity and Rush Limburger in the way that you CONTINUE to spout lies about him even after they've been disproved. This makes you the WORST of all these combinations.... an Extremely Obsessed Fundamentalist! (aka: Conservative.) :lol2::rofl: Sorry, GMAN..... I just couldn't resist. My fingers just kept leading me toward that eventual conclusion. I'm having a little fun here. I DO respect you, but I have a hard time answering the avalanche of misconceptions and untruths that come from your political beliefs. |
Up next:
Obama was born in Kenya! [YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE] |
Originally Posted by golfhobo
(Post 462908)
ssoutlaw said:
NOT until we as a nation were almost 100 years old! At the insistence of a few religious nuts. U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust" I've discussed this one many times before. Short answer? Not until about 1954.... at the insistence of some MORE religious kooks! Google the phrase YOURSELF (I'm too lazy this morning.) Don't really feel like checking this one either this morning. Been too long ago, so I don't recall the exact words I swore to at MY enlistment. God is probably mentioned.... but, it doesn't mean what YOU say it means. Again... it was probably ADDED somewhere along the line. I don't know, but I have to WONDER whether it was part of the ORIGINAL oath at the foundation of our country's militaries. No, it wasn't. It was founded BY religious people FOR religious freedom OF AND FROM religious persecution and LAWS. They went OUT OF THEIR way to make sure that our government would make "NO LAWS establishing, respecting, in collusion with.... how ever you want to say it..... the CHURCH or any religion. The only "CHANGING" that has been done over the years, has been the ADDITION of references to GOD to our mottos, oaths, etc...... at the insistence of the Moral Kooks. When you say religious freedom, maybe freedom from the roman Catholic church, to be free to worship with out a religious dictator, and I mean dictator controlling every aspect of their life??? No matter how you look at it, this country was built on religious beliefs which happen to come from a christian belief!!! Why you argue this fact is beyond me!!! Gone for a few days, see ya when I get back!!! |
Its still unbeliavable to see folks judge the entire religion on the acts of few. I want to give Rev. credit for being involved in the subject so far as his points coincide with mine and am glad to see that some have their head cleared from all the garbage you see on TV these days.
It is also very sad to see Mike continuously overshooting with his posts here and surprising me in the process even more. Everything concerning Islam and our relationship with the Muslim world starts with us here in America. We have been involved in that part of the world ever since oil came about, supported conflicts, overthrew governments and such, yet our people still seem to think that we are the righteous ones here without looking more deeply below the surface of this garbage that we have been fed. |
Originally Posted by ssoutlaw
(Post 462928)
No matter how you look at it, this country was built on religious beliefs which happen to come from a christian belief!!! Why you argue this fact is beyond me!!!
The US Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion. Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording: Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers. The Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states. Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government. Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men." The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness. Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone. |
ssoutlaw said:
With all due respect rev, you only know what you read! In the news the other day, an ANA soldier shot an American soldier over a drink of water in front of them on their holy time or something! For that matter he was shot back...lol Why did that ANA expect us to observe what their religion does, and then fight over it??? Maybe we should make the Muslims in this country observe Christmas, or we get to shoot them???? 5 U.S. troops killed in Afghan violence - Afghanistan- msnbc.com .... I see that "... an American service member and an Afghan police officer got into an argument because the American was drinking water in front of the Afghan police, who are not eating or drinking during the day because of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, said the district chief, Abdul Baqi Zemari. Now.... I realize you have a strong opinion of what happened, but obviously no understanding of WHY! I was "not there" either, but let me take a stab at it. It's Ramadan and the ANA's have to fast during the long HOT days in this Godforsaken craphole! No food and NO WATER!!! Some American soldier with about YOUR level of tolerance and consideration for their religious beliefs swaggers up to them, draws out his canteen and proceeds to gorge himself with cool water, probably allowing some of it to wash over his face and spill onto the dusty ground! Then he smirks at his lower class "bretheren in arms" because HE enjoys a freedom that they do not.... and he has reminded them of it.... even on THEIR OWN SOIL. Now, it's up to you. You can believe it was an UNPROVOKED shooting.... or you can believe it happened SOMETHING like I envision it. After seeing some reports on the news about the way our troops were talking down to the Iraqi police forces..... there is little doubt in MY mind what happened here. And just another little reminder to you. You said in the post JUST before that one..... These seem to be the views of the writer? And American news agencies at that .... ...Remember a news article is the writers opinion!!! Show me the proof!! |
Originally Posted by Dejanh
(Post 462932)
Its still unbeliavable to see folks judge the entire religion on the acts of few. I want to give Rev. credit for being involved in the subject so far as his points coincide with mine and am glad to see that some have their head cleared from all the garbage you see on TV these days.
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Jefferson's version of the Declaration of Independence NEVER used the words "endowed by our CREATOR" either!!
Read all about it... and other issues pertaining to the Separation issue.... at the following link. Go to the table of contents page and find something you want to know the TRUTH about! :roll3: Jefferson's Original Declaration of Independence Did Not Use the Word "Creator" |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462938)
Please don't piggyback your beliefs on mine. I think you are way off base when it comes to "blacks have a right to be racist." NOBODY has a "right" to be racist.
I'll 2nd that sentiment. |
Just to stir up some more chit, and knowing that I read a reference to it SOMEWHERE in this thread....
What makes you people think that Rev. Wright was a racist? I'll bet MOST of you are basing that statement on the clips of his sermon where he said "God DAMN America!" Am I right? Well, I wonder if any of you saw.... or if one of you tekkies could find for me on youtube.... the clip of the Republican wing of congress... or some conservative group like that.... singing "God, DON"T bless America!" It's the SAME thing! :lol2::lol2::lol2: "I" understood what Rev Wright was saying when he SAID it! He was saying that America had not lived up to its beliefs.... and therefore we had no RIGHT to ask God to bless us! He should.... and by definition found in the Bible.... DAMN this country for some of what it has done to each other AND other nations. But, the utter HYPOCRISY of Republicans making such a stink over that.... and then joining to sing the song with different words..... God... DON'T BLESS America! :lol2::lol2: |
Originally Posted by golfhobo
(Post 462956)
Just to stir up some more chit, and knowing that I read a reference to it SOMEWHERE in this thread....
What makes you people think that Rev. Wright was a racist? I'll bet MOST of you are basing that statement on the clips of his sermon where he said "God DAMN America!" Am I right? Well, I wonder if any of you saw.... or if one of you tekkies could find for me on youtube.... the clip of the Republican wing of congress... or some conservative group like that.... singing "God, DON"T bless America!" It's the SAME thing! :lol2::lol2::lol2: |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462938)
Please don't piggyback your beliefs on mine. I think you are way off base when it comes to "blacks have a right to be racist." NOBODY has a "right" to be racist.
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Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462958)
Yeah, except one exists and the other doesn't. I checked.
I don't remember which newsprogram I was watching, or whether it was last night or the night before.... but, I SAW this "choir" and heard them singing the song God DON'T bless America! With my OWN eyes and ears! I don't make chit up, Rev! Look a little harder! :hellno: |
Originally Posted by Dejanh
(Post 462965)
Why are you referring to a post i've done couple of days ago. I was talking about Black/White and everything else that had to do with it and that was a different discussion. I dont know why you even mentioned what i've said in another conversation. It has nothing to do with what I feel toward Islam, which my previous post was about.
Originally Posted by golfhobo
(Post 462966)
:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2: I didn't SAY there was a youtube clip.... I just assumed there was one.
I don't remember which newsprogram I was watching, or whether it was last night or the night before.... but, I SAW this "choir" and heard them singing the song God DON'T bless America! With my OWN eyes and ears! I don't make chit up, Rev! Look a little harder! :hellno: Just as I challenged GMAN to prove his claim that Obama said he was a Muslim (which he couldn't), I challenge you to prove your claim. I searched that exact phrase. It brought up 3 results, none of which was what you were talking about. The proof is on you. You made the claim. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462967)
So now it's gone from the Republican wing of Congress (or some group like that) to just being a choir? Just as I challenged GMAN to prove his claim that Obama said he was a Muslim (which he couldn't), I challenge you to prove your claim. I searched that exact phrase. It brought up 3 results, none of which was what you were talking about. The proof is on you. You made the claim. It may take a day or two to show up somewhere. Maybe it never will. Like MOST republican crap lately, it wasn't worth the time it took to spew it out..... EXCEPT to me, because of the HYPOCRISY it represented! :lol2: BTW.... I heard the same clip GMAN is referring to. I don't think he is quoting it just right, but I believe Obama DID make reference once to having been raised for a time as a Muslim. THEN, he converted to Christianity. Of course, as you said.... media clips DO EXIST of it, cuz that's where I saw it, too. |
[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X77R_prkCkg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&featur e=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X77R_prkCkg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&featur e=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]Is this what you're talking about?????
DaytonDailyNews.com /* */ Local choir gets Web attention Church group's song alluding to abortion, U.S. sin emerges on YouTube and blogs. Comment: What do you think of the change in lyrics? Video: Watch and listen to the choir sing By Andrew McGinn Staff Writer Thursday, September 20, 2007 The money still says, "In God We Trust." But if you ask one Springfield church choir, why should He still trust us — or even bless us? Extras The Grand Avenue Church of God choir has had a song called "Why Should God Bless America?" in its repertoire for more than a decade. The song is a rewrite of Irving Berlin's classic, "God Bless America." But this week, with the choir's performance of the song in Florida at a Republican presidential debate, it officially entered the viral video age. It turned up on YouTube and also surfaced in the blogosphere, prompting both praise and criticism. "Most people don't know about us," explained head choir director Melanie Clark. "We're just a little congregation in Springfield, Ohio." A little congregation — but with a mighty big message. The song opens with the lines, "Why should God bless America? She's forgotten he exists." References to prayer being taken out of schools and abortion ensue. Clark said she imagines the song could be controversial. "But those who are concerned about family values and moral values appreciate it," she said. "We didn't mean to cause any problem." The event Monday in Fort Lauderdale was a Values Voters debate. According to ValuesVoters.com, the group is made of "voters that believe in American values." Seven of 11 GOP candidates attended, but frontrunners weren't present. The Church of God choir was invited to perform by Janet Folger, president of the group Faith2Action. The former legislative director of Ohio Right to Life, Folger first saw the group perform in 1996 at a pro-life rally at the then-Springfield Inn. While not an original song, Folger thinks "everybody should hear" it, according to Clark. "People just love it," Clark said. "We just keep getting requests for it." |
If that is indeed it, that's quite a stretch.
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Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462973)
If that is indeed it, that's quite a stretch.
"But this week, with the choir's performance of the song in Florida at a Republican presidential debate, it officially entered the viral video age. It turned up on YouTube and also surfaced in the blogosphere, prompting both praise and criticism." I think this is what GH was referring to. He heard "Republican" and went on a :ranting:... |
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
(Post 462976)
I think this is what GH was referring to. He heard "Republican" and went on a :ranting:...
[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hwQWuQVE6sw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hwQWuQVE6sw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE] |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462977)
I'm sure, but it's still a stretch to compare the two.
It is a stretch. And to paint every Republican with the same brush is about the same as painting all Muslims as Bin Laden followers, or all Jews as thieves or...you get the picture. Until people stop pointing fingers they will never be able to join hands and work together for change. Just sayin... |
Originally Posted by RebelDarlin
(Post 462980)
It is a stretch. And to paint every Republican with the same brush is about the same as painting all Muslims as Bin Laden followers, or all Jews as thieves or...you get the picture.
Until people stop pointing fingers they will never be able to join hands and work together for change. Just sayin... |
:oops:never mind
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Damn I missed it!!!!:mad:
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Originally Posted by Dejanh
(Post 462932)
Its still unbeliavable to see folks judge the entire religion on the acts of few. I want to give Rev. credit for being involved in the subject so far as his points coincide with mine and am glad to see that some have their head cleared from all the garbage you see on TV these days.
It is also very sad to see Mike continuously overshooting with his posts here and surprising me in the process even more. Everything concerning Islam and our relationship with the Muslim world starts with us here in America. We have been involved in that part of the world ever since oil came about, supported conflicts, overthrew governments and such, yet our people still seem to think that we are the righteous ones here without looking more deeply below the surface of this garbage that we have been fed. There has been so much posted today. I take the day off and miss out on so much discussion. I understand that there have been mistakes made by those representing this country. People of all nationalities are prone to make mistakes. That does not give one group the right to murder or behead innocents. Muslim leaders have failed to stand up and condemn those who have committed atrocities in the name of Islam. Their failure shows that they support these terrorist actions. That is the reason so many will put all Muslims in the same group. Since I have mention Hitler and the Nazi's and WWII I will also mention the holocaust and the murder of 6 million Jews. There were others who were also killed by the Nazi's during this time. The German people were silent. Some said that they were unaware of what went on with the murders. I am not so sure. Some had to know, but were silent. By their silence they were as guilty as the ones who dropped the gas. Many Muslims still don't believe the holocaust happened. No matter what their disagreement with our government, these terrorists do not have the right to murder thousands of innocent men, women and children. If the Muslims don't want to all be grouped together then they need to stand up and be counted. They need to speak out publicly and condemn these people for their actions. Arab nations need to stop providing shelter and money to these people. I will stop grouping them together when they start acting civilized. A civilized society doesn't tolerate such atrocities. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 462926)
Up next:
Obama was born in Kenya! [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube] Yep, I have heard that. He could easily stop those accusations by producing his birth certificate. |
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463017)
There has been so much posted today. I take the day off and miss out on so much discussion. I understand that there have been mistakes made by those representing this country. People of all nationalities are prone to make mistakes. That does not give one group the right to murder or behead innocents. Muslim leaders have failed to stand up and condemn those who have committed atrocities in the name of Islam. Their failure shows that they support these terrorist actions.
I don't remember Christian leaders standing up and condemning David Koresh. I guess that means they supported him. I don't remember Christian leaders standing up and condemning the molestation charges brought against Catholic priests until they were forced to. I guess that means they secretly supported them. I don't remember Christian leaders standing up and condemning Timothy McVeigh, who bombed the Oklahoma City building in retaliation for Waco. Their failure shows that they support this terrorist action. OR MAYBE RELIGIOUS LEADERS SHOULDN'T BE EXPECTED TO APOLOGIZE FOR NUTJOBS. Many Muslims still don't believe the holocaust happened. Why they deny the Holocaust -- latimes.com More of the same, I see. Keep dividing the world. That will help bring us all together.:roll: |
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463019)
Yep, I have heard that. He could easily stop those accusations by producing his birth certificate.
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You are attempting to compare apples to oranges. I don't recall Timothy McVeigh stating anything about blowing up a building in the name of Christianity or GOD. Perhaps I missed something? I think the way the government acted in the David Koresh incident over shadowed anything anyone could have said. He didn't kill people in the name of God or Christianity. But I did hear some religious leaders condemn his behavior and his perversion of Christianity. Much of what Christian leaders say is not reported by our main street media. If you want to hear what Christians have to say it usually has to come from Christian broadcasters or conservative talk shows. None of these people, other than McVeigh, targeted innocent people. And in McVeigh's instance, he targeted a government building. According to what I recall about the story, he did it in retaliation to what the government did at Ruby Ridge. It had nothing to do with him doing it in the name of Christianity.
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Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 463021)
OMG! Now you're one of the wacko nutjob Birthers? Where does this insanity end?????????
You get upset even when I agree with you? I would think that if he was not a natural born citizen that something would have been proven by this point. By his secrecy he has fueled more speculation. And as far as I know he has still never made either his birth certificate or college records public. When people hide their past it makes people curious. My problem with Obama is with his policies. |
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463022)
You are attempting to compare apples to oranges. I don't recall Timothy McVeigh stating anything about blowing up a building in the name of Christianity or GOD. Perhaps I missed something?
I think the way the government acted in the David Koresh incident over shadowed anything anyone could have said. He didn't kill people in the name of God or Christianity. But I did hear some religious leaders condemn his behavior and his perversion of Christianity. Much of what Christian leaders say is not reported by our main street media. If you want to hear what Christians have to say it usually has to come from Christian broadcasters or conservative talk shows. None of these people, other than McVeigh, targeted innocent people. And in McVeigh's instance, he targeted a government building. According to what I recall about the story, he did it in retaliation to what the government did at Ruby Ridge. It had nothing to do with him doing it in the name of Christianity. You seem awfully eager to give Christians a free pass for neglecting to act, while condemning others for not doing so. That's called bigotry. Don't believe me? Bigotry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who regards or treats members of a group (e.g. a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.[1] Bigotry is the corresponding mindset or action. |
Your definition of bigotry is way off when you accuse me of being a bigot. Neither Christianity or Islam are racial or ethnic groups. You don't like what I say so you attempt to shut me down by calling me a bigot or racist. You fail to prove your point so you revert to personal attacks and name calling.:roll:
This thread has gotten way off track. |
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463023)
You get upset even when I agree with you?
I would think that if he was not a natural born citizen that something would have been proven by this point. By his secrecy he has fueled more speculation. And as far as I know he has still never made either his birth certificate or college records public. When people hide their past it makes people curious. My problem with Obama is with his policies. 1. Obama is secretly a Muslim 2. Muslims want to overthrow our government 3. Obama is helping them do it 4. A Muslim terrorist is the same as any other Muslim 5. Anyone who has ever killed in the name of God is not really a Christian, and somehow that same standard doesn't apply to Islam 6. Those who don't speak out against, or apologize for bad things done in the name of their religion are just as guilty as those who committed the atrocities in the first place 7. The President and the Democrats in Congress are trying to destroy the country 8. The President has circumvented the Constitution by appointing czars (I'll come back to this one later, lol) 9. The President is like Hitler 10. The words "Freedom of Religion" supposedly appear in the Constitution 11. Islam is taught in our schools 12. Obama might not have been born in the US Have I missed any? Okay, back to the "czar" issue. Do you even have a CLUE what a "czar" is? Or are you simply buying what you're being told one is? I'll give you a hint: A "czar," as the term is being used today, is an ADVISOR to the President. EVERY President has them. The term was coined by RONALD REAGAN, when he appointed the first drug czar back in the 80's. Since then, it's been the commonly accepted term for Presidential advisors. It has NOTHING to do with circumventing the Constitution or the Congress, and EVERYTHING to do with helping Obama make better informed decisions. Reagan had them, Bush 1 had them, Clinton had them, Bush Jr. had them, and now Obama has them. Plus every other President of the 20th Century had them, only they weren't called "czars" back then. So basically, you're complaining that Obama has advisors. LOL. You said it best back on page 1 of this thread when you were accusing government officials of trying to divide the country, and later when you were accusing people like Jackson and Sharpton of doing the same:
Originally Posted by GMAN
As long as the politicians can pit one group against the other they can control the masses. There are those who are taking money from both ends. It isn't right, no matter who is doing it.
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Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463025)
Your definition of bigotry is way off when you accuse me of being a bigot. Neither Christianity or Islam are racial or ethnic groups.
This thread has gotten way off track. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 463027)
I was MOCKING them, since you were professing a bunch of crazy conspiracy theories that are commonly associated with them.
I guess that CERTIFIED Hawaiian birth certificate, which has been checked by countless government officials, both conservative and liberal, is imaginary. But you don't want it to be true, so I'm sure you'll spout the typical Birther nonsense about it not being a REAL birth certificate (even though it's been certified as real by the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii) I don't know if it is a real birth certificate or not. I have not seen it. All I know is what I have heard. And as I stated above, if he were not a citizen I would think that someone would have come forward and proven it. Of course, there is still the matter of his academic records. To my knowledge, every president has made his records public. When someone refuses to do so then it is assumed that they have something to hide. No, your problem is that you don't like Obama, so you're coming up with crazy conspiracy theories to try to discount him. So far in this thread, you've professed: I don't recall mentioning anything about a conspiracy. 1. Obama is secretly a Muslim I only related what I heard Obama state in a speech. 2. Muslims want to overthrow our government Of course they do. They have stated as much. They want to convert or destroy anyone who gets in their way to force the world to accept Islam. And what do you think the attacks on 9/11 were all about? They wanted to bring down our government. It wasn't only the trade center that was attacked. The Pentagon was also attacked and it is speculated that had the passengers not taken control of the last plane that it would have either hit the White House or Capital. 3. Obama is helping them do it I don't recall specifically making a statement such as you noted. However, he is destroying this country with the programs and policies he is initiating. And that can help the terrorists to achieve their goals. 4. A Muslim terrorist is the same as any other Muslim I don't recall having said this either. I did say that my their silence they were supporting terrorism. I still stand by that statement. 5. Anyone who has ever killed in the name of God is not really a Christian, and somehow that same standard doesn't apply to Islam Christianity teaches that we should not kill. It is one of the 10 commandments. 6. Those who don't speak out against, or apologize for bad things done in the name of their religion are just as guilty as those who committed the atrocities in the first place 7. The President and the Democrats in Congress are trying to destroy the country This is true. Everything this president has done since he assumed office goes against everything this country stands for. He has taken over the U.S. auto industry, banking and insurance industries, or at least a large portion of them. That is socialism, not capitalism. It is not the right or obligation of this government to take over ANY business. Capitalism gives business the right to succeed or fail. It isn't up to the government to take over failing business or put tax payer money at risk. It is also not constitutional for the government for force healthcare on it's citizens. This president and congress are out of control. They are spending money like a group of drunken sailors on a long weekend leave. The only problem is that they are spending money they don't have. They are jeopardizing the future of our country and citizens and putting us into servitude to our creditors. Rather than expanding government they should be reducing the size of government and cutting spending. 8. The President has circumvented the Constitution by appointing czars (I'll come back to this one later, lol) There is a constitutional process for those who hold sensitive positions in government. None of his appointee's have apparently gone through any background check. In fact, Obama himself would not likely have passed a security check based on his past associations alone. 9. The President is like Hitler Perhaps you would prefer Stalin, Lenin, Mao? Obama is acting like a dictator. He is attempting to act against the will of the people. 10. The words "Freedom of Religion" supposedly appear in the Constitution I don't recall stating that "Freedom of Religion" appears in the constitution. The constitution does provide for freedom of religion. Basically, it prohibits the government from preventing us from worshiping as we will. At least it is supposed to work that way. Try praying in school or reading the Bible and you will bring a lot of trouble down on yourself. It is unconstitutional for the government to interfere in people who choose to pray or read their Bible anywhere. That hasn't stopped the liberals from pushing their agenda and ignoring the constitution. 11. Islam is taught in our schools Some schools have been reading and studying the Koran. It has been on the national news. 12. Obama might not have been born in the US You are repeating yourself. Have I missed any? Okay, back to the "czar" issue. Do you even have a CLUE what a "czar" is? Or are you simply buying what you're being told one is? I'll give you a hint: A "czar," as the term is being used today, is an ADVISOR to the President. EVERY President has them. The term was coined by RONALD REAGAN, when he appointed the first drug czar back in the 80's. Since then, it's been the commonly accepted term for Presidential advisers. It has NOTHING to do with circumventing the Constitution or the Congress, and EVERYTHING to do with helping Obama make better informed decisions. Reagan had them, Bush 1 had them, Clinton had them, Bush Jr. had them, and now Obama has them. Plus every other President of the 20th Century had them, only they weren't called "czars" back then. So basically, you're complaining that Obama has advisers. LOL. No I am complaining that he has attempted to bypass the congress by appointing so many czars. These people should have gone through background checks and been interviewed by congress. As far as I know, neither has happened. He doesn't want to answer to congress. Not that it makes much difference. This congress seems to be a rubber stamp for whatever he wants to do. If this were George Bush, all hell would have broken lose by now. You said it best back on page 1 of this thread when you were accusing government officials of trying to divide the country, and later when you were accusing people like Jackson and Sharpton of doing the same: They are doing just that by pitting blacks against whites. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made a fortune by convincing blacks that whites are responsible for all their problems. They could have encouraged blacks to stay in school and learn a trade or get a college degree. Instead, they blame whites for their failures. And the government has done blacks the most harm by encouraging a dependency on the government rather than encouraging them to move out of their poverty. It is a way for some to stay in power. After all, who would vote against their paycheck? There have been many blacks who have made it out of poverty in spite of government. Jackson and Sharpton like to blame rather than encourage people. People need to take responsibility for their actions and themselves regardless of race. They get their power by dividing us. Imagine what this country would be like if we didn't look at race? It seems you've bought what they are selling, since you seem hellbent on helping them pitting one group against another. You want to criticize Obama's policies? Then go right ahead! You don't have to help disseminate garbage about Muslims and Hitler etc. like you have in this thread to do so. If the FACTS aren't good enough, then maybe it's not his policies you really don't like..... |
Since you embedded most of your post in my quote, I'll simply respond to the part you didn't. I'd also ask that in the future, you don't do so, as it makes responding all that much more difficult. Putting quote tags into a post before responding isn't tough. But when you embed your response in my post, when I hit the quote button, none of it even shows up.
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463032)
I didn't realize that you were such a fan of Obama.
I'm not. In fact, I've been called a "Bushbot" too. But when push comes to shove, I am a fan of the Democratic Process, and whether I like him or not, he is MY President. When I see people making blatantly false statements against him, it makes my blood boil (just like it did under Bush). When those people are citizens of this country, it makes it that much worse. When those citizens are simply mouthpieces for the media and talk show personalities, it makes me lose faith in humanity. I just happen to be a history buff. If you care to do some research, you can find out for yourself how similar the actions of Obama follow those of Hitler. They are already attempting to find out who own guns and how many. I spoke with a guy a couple of days ago and he received something from the government asking about his weapons. If Obama and the democrats have their way they will systematically disarm this country, just as Hitler did in Germany. There was much more said about Bush than I have said about Obama. My problem is not just with Obama but most of those who are supposed to represent us in both parties. The democrats want to push socialism on this country. The current incumbents didn't start it, but they may just get it done. Socialism doesn't work in a free society. They cannot coexist. This group is about control. You don't have to take my word for it. Read a little history. And if you don't like Hitler then check out Lennon or Stalin. What you find just might scare you a bit, if you have an open mind. You're so hell bent on attaching labels to him, that you're attaching contradictory labels. So here's your free history lesson for today. Since you're a self-professed "history buff," you should find this quite interesting and informative. I'm being nice and including links too: Fascism: Single party state, opposes class conflict (pitting various economic levels against each other, like Republicans and Democrats readily do), and blames liberal democracies (you know, like OBAMA?) for the creation of those conflicts and Communists (you know, like STALIN?) for exploiting them. So Obama clearly can't be a Fascist like Hitler. It goes against everything the Democrat party stands for. Source: Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Socialism: Not a political system, but rather an economic system. Socialists believe in direct ownership and control of resources by all, rather than ownership and control by a select few, including government. Commonly associated with the "working class." Lenin wrongly claimed that Socialism was a transition between Capitalism and Communism. Since Obama clearly doesn't believe in direct ownership and control of all resources by the people, he can't be a Socialist either. Obama is commonly referred to as a Socialist because of his support of the working class. Source: Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Marxism: Also known as Communism. Thrives on social conflicts, and believes such conflicts result in future technology and production for the society. Believes a select few should control and exploit the majority, unlike Socialism (meaning that each person gives more than they take). Since Obama is in favor of extending benefits to those who do not give as much as they take, he clearly can't be a Marxist/Communist. Source: Marxism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Parliamentary Republic/Monarchy: See Great Britain. I don't think we have to worry about King Obama anytime soon.:rofl: So there you have it, GMAN. Your free history lesson for today, and prima facie evidence why Obama cannot be all the things you've attributed to him. Now I challenge you to prove anything I've posted here wrong with legitimate evidence, rather than hearsay, conspiracies, and speculation. I know that your regular information sources normally don't provide you with much more than talking points (hence the fact that you're up in arms about czars, even though it's a term that Ronald Reagan coined for advisors, and have NEVER been subject to Congressional approval, as they have no powers whatsoever), so I'm actually challenging you to go out and find the information. I fully expect that you'll gloss over this all, and dismiss it immediately, so I'm begging you - prove me wrong. I'd delight in you producing legitimate proof to show that Obama is a Fascist/Socialist/Marxist/Monarch. |
I challenge you to show me one thing that I have lied about with Obama. I have stated the truth and my opinion. You may not like what I have said. That is obvious when you revert to calling me names. One thing we can agree on is that he is our president. That is an unfortunate reality. And to balance things out, I am not sure that McCain would have been much better, but I don't think that he would have attempted to circumvent the constitution or congress with his appointee's. No president or elected representative should be above criticism. It is his behavior that I question. It is also his associations that I also question. Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean that you need to lower yourself to name calling. That is the liberal way. You have no basis for your statements so you call those who disagree with you names. Well, fire away. Whether you disagree or not, all you need do is look at history and you will see parallels to what is going on. On the other hand, you could just stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of this is true and everything is right with the world.
|
Let's try this
Universal Heath Care----- the US is about the only developed country not to implement it. Universal Heath care is based on secular humanism period. Global Economic Stimulus----- Germany, France, China, Japan... the list is endless, are working on their countries economic stimulus.... Ideally based on economic theory period. Public Welfare----- it ain't new. You CANNOT blame society for its embrace because of one or even a couple elements (government, race, religion). I am an American who supports her President who was elected by the People. Period. I support my country and her ;) efforts to be a great Nation of People of the World. Period. If you don't like the way the government is handling things, offer rational and supported correspondence to those who represent you. I don't think grasping at butt burps in the wind to take a soapbox stand will really, truly support any claims or bring closer a resolution. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 463036)
I fully expect that you'll gloss over this all, and dismiss it immediately,
Originally Posted by GMAN
(Post 463038)
I challenge you to show me one thing that I have lied about with Obama.
2. Muslims want to overthrow our government. No they don't. Wacko terrorists want to overthrow our government. 3. Obama is helping them do it. You now claim you never said this, but it appears on page 4:
Originally Posted by GMAN
I also think that the Muslims want to over throw this government or bring this country to it's knees. Obama is doing a great job for them. They should be proud of the job their fellow Muslim brother is doing for them in bringing down the "Great Satan" (America).
4. A Muslim terrorist is the same as a Muslim. You denied this one as well, but that appears on Page 5:
Originally Posted by GMAN
It wasn't a loving people who attacked this country on 9/11. It was people who said that they were Muslims. The Muslims have sworn to kill Americans and anyone who stands in their way to force the world into believing the way that they do.
5. The President is trying to destroy the country. Your reasoning for this appears on Page 12:
Originally Posted by GMAN
Everything this president has done since he assumed office goes against everything this country stands for. He has taken over the U.S. auto industry, banking and insurance industries, or at least a large portion of them. That is socialism, not capitalism.
6. The President's advisors are unconstitutionally receiving power without the authorization of congress. Yet another wild claim with no proof whatsoever to back it up. 7. The President is like Hitler/Stalin/Lenin/Lennon, etc. Please see my prior post that clearly shows he can't be all of these things. 8. "Freedom of Religion" appears in the Constitution. Once again you play the "I don't recall ever saying this" card. This time it's on Page 7.
Originally Posted by GMAN
Our forefathers put "Freedom of Religion" in our constitution.
9. Islam is being taught in public schools. I had to dig to find the sources on this one, and not surprisingly, they were all from far right fringe websites who believe that Muslim (an ethnic group) and Islam (a religion) are one in the same. Muslim culture was most certainly being taught in our schools, and for good reason. In fact, the only reference I could find that actually made a real allegation of Islam being taught in a public school was a Minneapolis charter school that was receiving public funds and was accused of teaching Islam. The name of the school? Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy. Which just so happened to be run by an Islamic charity, and they deny the allegation, saying they are careful to follow State guidelines. 10. Obama was not born in the US. Even you are now claiming that "well i didn't see the birth certificate." Well just for you, here is the super secret birth certificate that took me all of about 15 seconds to find: FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A. I have stated the truth and my opinion. You may not like what I have said. That is obvious when you revert to calling me names. One thing we can agree on is that he is our president. That is an unfortunate reality. And to balance things out, I am not sure that McCain would have been much better, but I don't think that he would have attempted to circumvent the constitution or congress with his appointee's. Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean that you need to lower yourself to name calling. That is the liberal way. You have no basis for your statements so you call those who disagree with you names. Well, fire away. Whether you disagree or not, all you need do is look at history and you will see parallels to what is going on. On the other hand, you could just stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of this is true and everything is right with the world. Now I've proven my case, and you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support any of yours. I issued a challenge to you in my prior post to prove me wrong. You glossed over it and issued a challenge of your own to prove you wrong. I did. Now I expect you'll provide the same courtesy to me. :) |
Originally Posted by dobry4u
(Post 463045)
I am an American who supports her President who was elected by the People. Period. I support my country and her ;) efforts to be a great Nation of People of the World. Period.
If you don't like the way the government is handling things, offer rational and supported correspondence to those who represent you. I don't think grasping at butt burps in the wind to take a soapbox stand will really, truly support any claims or bring closer a resolution. It is because of grown adults resorting to tactics of a 6 year old that I've lost faith in the Republican party, and no longer consider myself one. I know for a fact I'm not the only one. I now consider my political views, like my religion, to be Agnostic - meaning there may be a difference between the two parties, but I have yet to see it. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
(Post 463036)
Since you embedded most of your post in my quote, I'll simply respond to the part you didn't. I'd also ask that in the future, you don't do so, as it makes responding all that much more difficult. Putting quote tags into a post before responding isn't tough. But when you embed your response in my post, when I hit the quote button, none of it even shows up.
I'm not. In fact, I've been called a "Bushbot" too. But when push comes to shove, I am a fan of the Democratic Process, and whether I like him or not, he is MY President. When I see people making blatantly false statements against him, it makes my blood boil (just like it did under Bush). When those people are citizens of this country, it makes it that much worse. When those citizens are simply mouthpieces for the media and talk show personalities, it makes me lose faith in humanity. No offense, but you're not very good at it. You'll see why in a short while. Seriously - could you stop invoking Godwin's Law? It's getting old. Plus it's contradictory. You'll understand why when you read further on. Prove it. Stop making these blanket allegations and actually back something up for once. You obviously have a computer, and I'm sure you can find Google. PROVE IT. I don't believe this for a second. I'm sure your friend has access to a scanner. Have him prove it. Again, prove it. So that makes spreading lies about him OK. Ok, now you're talking about Socialism. Which is it? So far, you've likened him to a Fascist (Hitler), a Socialist, and Muslims, which most Muslim countries are Monarchies or Parliamentary Republics (like England). He can't be all these things. These type of governments don't coexist. If you can't discuss Obama without talking about Hitler, then you've already lost the argument. And I've checked out Lennon. He was great in the Beatles. Lenin, on the other hand, was a Marxist. You clearly don't know anything about these different types of government, because if you did, you would know that Fascism (Hitler) does not jive with Socialism, which does not jive with Marxism, which does not jive with a Monarchy or a Parliamentary Republic. You're so hell bent on attaching labels to him, that you're attaching contradictory labels. So here's your free history lesson for today. Since you're a self-professed "history buff," you should find this quite interesting and informative. I'm being nice and including links too: Fascism: Single party state, opposes class conflict (pitting various economic levels against each other, like Republicans and Democrats readily do), and blames liberal democracies (you know, like OBAMA?) for the creation of those conflicts and Communists (you know, like STALIN?) for exploiting them. So Obama clearly can't be a Fascist like Hitler. It goes against everything the Democrat party stands for. Source: Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Socialism: Not a political system, but rather an economic system. Socialists believe in direct ownership and control of resources by all, rather than ownership and control by a select few, including government. Commonly associated with the "working class." Lenin wrongly claimed that Socialism was a transition between Capitalism and Communism. Since Obama clearly doesn't believe in direct ownership and control of all resources by the people, he can't be a Socialist either. Obama is commonly referred to as a Socialist because of his support of the working class. Source: Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Marxism: Also known as Communism. Thrives on social conflicts, and believes such conflicts result in future technology and production for the society. Believes a select few should control and exploit the majority, unlike Socialism (meaning that each person gives more than they take). Since Obama is in favor of extending benefits to those who do not give as much as they take, he clearly can't be a Marxist/Communist. Source: Marxism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Parliamentary Republic/Monarchy: See Great Britain. I don't think we have to worry about King Obama anytime soon.:rofl: So there you have it, GMAN. Your free history lesson for today, and prima facie evidence why Obama cannot be all the things you've attributed to him. Now I challenge you to prove anything I've posted here wrong with legitimate evidence, rather than hearsay, conspiracies, and speculation. I know that your regular information sources normally don't provide you with much more than talking points (hence the fact that you're up in arms about czars, even though it's a term that Ronald Reagan coined for advisors, and have NEVER been subject to Congressional approval, as they have no powers whatsoever), so I'm actually challenging you to go out and find the information. I fully expect that you'll gloss over this all, and dismiss it immediately, so I'm begging you - prove me wrong. I'd delight in you producing legitimate proof to show that Obama is a Fascist/Socialist/Marxist/Monarch. Glen Beck, Shaun Hannity and Bill O`Reilly, will all take you off their mailing lists!!! :lol: continue with the arguing now. :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: |
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