[MichiganDriver]

Out of respect for the women that are present, we only make passing references to our favorite subject, shapely women. Now we need to eliminate an entire subject from discussion because it makes women unhappy to know that men are being disagreeable a-holes about things we care about? That's what men do. Next we won't be allowed to talk about sports, or the weather, or cars, or trucks. Can't a guy get any peace, not even in a male dominated field like trucking?

[Mr. Ford95]

A lot of what has been going on recently is the same BS that takes place on the CB's which is why I have started just stating my piece and moving on. It's not worth arguing back and forth when neither side is going to admit the other is right. The more you go back and forth the more you look like 5 year olds.

[Kentla93]

Originally Posted by CleeIB

Kentla93, no worries, it's good to bring this stuff up.

This has all been amusing to read, but I'd better clarify.

Politics are of course intertwined with trucking. Please don't stop discussing trucking-related politics.

It's when politics about other stuff comes in that the yelling and excessive punctuation starts. And it's true that both members and my higher ups have complained. Stuff like "mano a mano" is not what the powers that be want.

Truckers come here to congregate with other truckers. We want to encourage that, not yelling matches that spill over into PM's and other areas of the board, and which end up driving folks apart.

The mods/admins are discussing ways to strike the right balance between civil discourse and letting people spout whatever's on their minds. Something along the lines of what Mr. Ford95 suggests - a separate folder - might be in the works.

Thanks for the input, everyone, I don't mind at all. Ideally I am in here as little as possible to let you guys do your thing (as long you stop beating the crap out of each other).

Thanks for your approval Clee,
In all sincerity my opinion on the members of this board and the arguments / heated debates that have gone on since the beginning will not stop, there are way too many personal opinions and everyone of them stinks of azz just like mine do, it just is.... Having a seperate folder that is strictly for debates and disagreements may keep those who complain out but just as in the HS / JS (Howard Stern / Jerry Springer) Scenerio ppl will tune in just to see a train wreck that is humanity and then they will complain. In the past if I were to make a comment about how I personaly think "Christianity is a joke, as religion is not meant to seperate the masses yet that is exactly what Chrisitanity does", you can rest asure that there would be at least 5 very heated judgemental responses from ppl who call themselves chistian calling me every name in the book. It just is.. A year ago I would have welcomed your arrival in hopes that you could stop the name calling but the fact is each and every one of us had played a role in name calling and judgemental attitudes "again" "it just is" Now I just sit back and witness the show, as I really enjoy seeing Hobo systematicly take down individuals who speak out of both sides of their azz, or ppl who are just so unhappy with the cards dealt to them in life that they try to come across as comic relief while all the time they are miserable in their own skin, all of us are guilty of this as well at one time or another. So I wish you the best of luck in your new job, as the bat boy once told us it is a thankless job and he was so right.. But hey someone has to do it..
Good luck and I look forward to your non partisan reviews of the polictical forums, something of which I might add is a first for this forum so hopefully it will be a pleasant change..

Timberwolf

[Kentla93]

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver

Out of respect for the women that are present, we only make passing references to our favorite subject, shapely women. Now we need to eliminate an entire subject from discussion because it makes women unhappy to know that men are being disagreeable a-holes about things we care about? That's what men do. Next we won't be allowed to talk about sports, or the weather, or cars, or trucks. Can't a guy get any peace, not even in a male dominated field like trucking?

Hey Michigandriver, I will never stop talking about how my wife is built like a lean mean sex machine, she is an amazing Gilf and everyday I marvel at the curves of her body... so if this is wrong, out of respect to those you speak of, I will leave my thoughts to myself...

Just saying if a member reads a post they dont like then stop reading it and move on.. What a concept..

[Mr. Ford95]

Kentla, a separate discussion area for the other stuff could work. So what if others complain, put a warning/waiver up. If someone still complains, ignore it unless it's a direct threat, unprovoked attack or deemed a reasonable complaint. Maybe even admonish the complainer by reminding them of the warning before they entered that area. If it can be made where a Mod has to approve a poster to be allowed in, then the Mods can revoke a poster's access in there if they complain because they got their feelings hurt or didn't like something they read. If that is possible, my suggestion is a warning first then banning them from it for however long is deemed necessary.

Now it took a bit of time and some temporary bans for everyone to understand where the limits were on another site but it's worked and been that way for like 5 years.

Just saying if a member reads a post they dont like then stop reading it and move on.. What a concept..

I tend to do just that a lot with Hobo. I zone out a bit on some of the longer posts and simply move on.

[golfhobo]

Roadhog said:

Well...that was one condescending post filled with backstabbing, distortions and rewritten history to fit your narative.

That should be enough for me to rest my case. But, I am overwhelmed with curiousity as to what part you felt was condescending? I all but kissed your azz and put you on a pedestal! Backstabbing? Who... what... when ... where?

I don't have time to find the thread in which the "argument" I referenced ocurred, but I remember it all quite well. I don't see any distortion or revisionism in my account of it.... but, I'll listen to your recollection if you'd like to "straighten me out" on it. Did I not mention that Twi made ME aware of what I had done wrong?

In re-reading my last post, I do see one or two things that could be considered "revisionist" (or perhaps what you considered condescending.) Let me clear those up here. As I recall.... you were the last to email me personally, and I owed you a response. But, before I could drag myself away from CAD (and another email relationship) long enough to email you back, you blew up on me on the board and at that point I figured you no longer wanted to hear back from me via email. In that regard, it is not accurate for me to say that you defriended me via personal email. I misspoke in that regard. Okay?

As for being condescending? In my last post I said: "I only ask that you be able to defend it with intelligent reasoning... not with links to some radical website." This was not intended for you personally! It was a generic statement about how I prefer to debate with the people on this board.... not some radical statement quoted from websites. IIRC, you have never been guilty of that.

Funny how all the conservative voices that rise to your level of genius, like Twilight and Vito, resolved in the same unholy mess with you.

Twilight flat out called me a liar concerning my attempts to continue a personal email conversation with him. I posted proof that I had been trying to respond, but he wasn't getting my emails. Faced with the facts, he chose to blow me off and leave the board. I regret HIS choice. I guess I could have resolved the situation by just clearing my PM box, but I didn't like the fact that I couldn't express myself in my accustomed manner with the limited "text editor" format of PM's (at that time) EVEN if I did the work of clearing out messages that were important to me, that I wanted to keep.

Vito, whom I had complimented many times for his economic knowledge, took his b@ll and went home when I dared to point out (with humor... I thought) ...as MichiganDriver did... his convoluted style of responding to posts with a hodgepodge of debatable facts followed by obscure references and unrelated links. I regret HIS decision, too.

I am left to surmise that these "conservative voices" are not used to having their opinions questioned by a free-thinking "centrist" and prefer, instead, to "cut and run." Something tells me that you would surely disagree.

But, speaking of condescension..... I can only imagine what Mr. Ford, Repete and GMAN feel about being left out of your list. MY debate style being a "constant," I wonder why they haven't reacted in the same way? Could it be that they speak their own mind and accept that I see things differently? Or is it that they debate me with equal measures of humor and civility?

[golfhobo]

robertt said:

You know hobo, we got started off on the wrong foot 2 or 3yrs ago.

Yes, I guess we did. It was probably mostly my fault, and for that I apologize. You ventured into this fray at a time when certain posters were trashing our president and labeling me as a "liberal." I was pretty busy returning fire and repelling handgrenades! :lol: You were crystal clear that you were apprehensive about speaking out on political issues, and I may have missed those cues. But, you gotta admit that it didn't take you long to pick sides.

We have had our ups and downs, mostly downs, but I was "entertaining" you by joining in on your so-called "debates", where everyone is wrong but you and whomever sides with you.

I was never on the debate team in High School, but... I'm pretty sure that the idea is to present your point of view as the correct one. The difference is that you started out by accusing the president of being a commie-socialist and backed it up with links to radical websites, and I had to dispell those claims rather than give MY opinions of why (I thought) he was doing the right things. To defend my position (and that of the president,) I first had to attack the credibility of your "sources." To the extent that I equated your personal opinions (which I knew little about) to the crap you were "pasting," instead of really asking you how you felt, I failed my OWN high standards of intelligent debate. Again, that is my fault... and I apologize.

I thought, OK, he doesn't like my responses so I'll give the words themselves from the people themselves and how could I go wrong? Their not my words, I'm not putting words in somebody else's mouth, but no, all of the links I have posted have come from "radical" organizations as you say, (as if we should take YOUR research and information sources for gospel), but I continued.

I understand your reasoning, but your sources WERE radical right-wing websites (for the most part,) and the video clips were mostly taken out of context... edited in some cases... and intended to support their agenda... which, by your own admission, you were gullible enough to accept as gospel. You have to admit that I tried very hard to explain such terms as "collective salvation" and "redistribution of wealth" in a way that would make them less "scary" to you. But, did you ever ONCE say, "I see what you mean?" Or... "you could be right?" No. You just kept posting links to (often) edited video clips from TheBlaze, and introducing them with emphatic statements like... "these fools, idiots, Socialists, clowns, etc." :roll:

It was, as they say, like that sore that hurts like hell but you mess with it anyway, but I kept "talking" to you anyway. I HAVE been involved in name calling only after I felt I was "attacked".

That goes both ways... as for being attacked. You called me a clown (in a thread/discussion I wasn't even involved in.) I disagree that you were actually "talking" to me. But, I am equally to blame. At some point, your barrage of video clips (often without even the courtesy of a disclaimer or synopsis) which required more time and effort to rebut than they were worth, wore me down and led me to frustration. I have very limited time at home, and you were wasting much of it. Sorry, but that's how I felt. By your own admission, you refused to "reply" to my comments, so there really was no discussion. Just more and more radical video clips that you refused to defend with your own political views. Surely, you noticed that I let most of them go without comment and only engaged when I couldn't stand the onslaught of ideological idiocy or right-wing hypocricy any longer. Of course, my comments went unchallenged.

Twi and Hog had a talk with me and basically told me to "get thicked skinned", "put on the big-boy panties", which I did for a while.

That's interesting. I wonder why no one had to "coach me" in how to withstand the onslaught of lies (oops, sorry... "conservative viewpoints") you were "pasting?" Could it be that the truth is its own shield? Why would an overwhelming majority of opinionists have to take extreme measures to defend themselves (and gird their army) against a lone voice of reason? :hellno:

And then........you had to go and accuse me of being a racist. And THEN, you PM me and tell me, "ok, maybe your not a racist but I have lived in the south long enough to detect an "attitude" when I see one".

I never accused you of being racist. You made comments that fit the profile that everyone who is NOT racist recognizes as "identifiable." You posted pics that crossed lines long established as racist. And, yes... I have lived in the South long enough to recognize both blatant AND latent racism when I see it. Perhaps, you should have taken my comments as a "warning" that if you weren't racist.... you would certainly have been welcomed at the local "white's only" bar in my part of the country! And I will not back down from that observation.

Well after the "racist" comments, I was done with you and especially after you telling me I had an "attitude". I've told you before and I'll tell you ONE last time. You don't know me, my friends, nor my family. You don't know the "make-up" of my personal "circle".

You're right... I don't. But among my other talents, I'm a student of social mores and evolutionary thinking. I have lived in the liberal Northwest and California, and I've lived in Texas and the deep South. And I can see and hear the difference! I know there are non-racists in every part of this country. And I know there are racists in every part of this country. My best friend is a Democrat... but, he's racist. My parents are "independents" but... there is an element of racism in them. I don't hate them for it... I understand it. Most white people in this country, regardless of what they say, have an element of racism in them.... and I am aware of my OWN "latent" traces of it based on my "societal" indoctrination. And, yes... I know there is racism in the "minority" community as well. Racism is not a good thing, but it is HUMAN. If you think you can convince me that YOU are the only human on the planet that is completely color blind... you are wasting your time!

Accusing me of that or anything else to do with it is the worst thing you could have done to me, because you don't know me.

And methinks that thou dost protest too much.

Prior to this I had sent you a PM and extended an "olive branch" so to speak. I think I have even stated here on the "open" boards, that I would like to meet you. I gave you my home and Cell #'s, said I would like for you to meet my son and wife. Have you over for dinner or to stay the night if you felt like it, I would come pick you up from the truck stop, show you the sights, take you on Base, out to the airplanes I work on and show you what I do. BUUUTTT......your PM box was supposedly full so I guess you didn't get that message or you ignored it.

My INBOX has indeed been full (as many on here can attest to) for some time. I remember your invite, but I don't recall getting phone numbers. I really would have loved to take you up on your generous offer. I wanted to meet you and your family, too! Alas, my current job almost guarantees that I will never get thru there unless things change. I meant to explain that to you, but I got distracted by new posts on CAD. For THAT, I apologize. I shouldn't have left you thinking that I wasn't interested... just because it was impossible. Believe it or not.... your invite meant A LOT to me! :thumbsup:

Michigandriver finds it hard to believe I don't lie. Have I lied, sure I have, but back when I didn't care or know any different.

Everyone lies now and then. I have never accused you of lying. It is the people you quote that are lying, and it frustrates me that you believe them. By your own admission, you believe them unless someone proves to you that it is a lie. I've been trying to do just that.

Your way of thinking is so foreign to me it's not even funny. You, MD and One are from a different planet than I am from and one that I am use to. I have NEVER been around people that talk or think like you do.

I remember my total SHOCK when you first said this in another post. I don't suppose I could BE a "Centrist" if I hadn't spent most of my life around people with DIFFERING views. MOST people I have been around express a range of views from left to right. By your own admission... you seem to live in some kind of a "conservative" bubble. Mainstream media, and mainstream America is "alien" to you? NEVER been around people who think like we do? You really need to get out more, robertt.

I'm gullible as hell and I know it. The reason? Because I believe everybody is telling the truth unless I figure/find out different.

And some of us have been trying to help you "find out" different. Politicians lie for sure. But, they are amateurs compared to the websites and talking heads (like Glenn Beck) that you've been listening to.... and BELIEVING.

I don't reply to you guys cause I'm done with you. If you were here in person, I would be done with you too. I try to get along with everybody but it doesn't always work that way, does it? I come to this board to "keep up" with the "industry" because I miss it terribly but I just can't do it anymore with my family situation. I'll still be here and may even "poke" every once in a while on here but for the most part I'll stick to sports, it's been alot more civil over there and I'll just keep reading the other posts.

Sorry you feel that way... but, it is your choice. FWIW, I DO believe that you try to get along with most people. I think you're a good guy, robertt. Kinda like YOU said... I have NO reason not to respect you. You have never lied. I hope you can believe that... neither have I.

Don't worry tho... it looks like CleeIB is going to shut down all political discussions on CAD, so.... I guess I'll be seeing you over on the SPORTS forum! :lol:

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by CleeIB

Kentla93, no worries, it's good to bring this stuff up.

Thanks for the input, everyone, I don't mind at all.

Really? You don't mind? Does that mean that I can give MY opinion and thoughts without fear of being banned? I promise not to shout.

Have you read these posts? Running about 8:1 against you. I had nothing to do with that.

Can I? Can I have one last post with capitalization and punctuation to say my piece? After that... I promise I'll behave like a good "kid" .... (or I'll find a grownup forum in which to hang my hat.)

Or... now that I've cleared my PM box.... should I save my discussion for responding to your private messages and "warnings?"

I wouldn't want to subject "tender ears" to the occaisional capitalized word!

Whaddaya think? A last meal for a condemned man? :lol:

[CleeIB]

Alright, everyone. New Politics folder is up and running:
http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/politics-110/

Please conduct non-trucking-related political discussion there.

Trucking-related political threads that become non-trucking-related will be moved there.

Mr. Ford95 and I will help keep the peace there. (Just be glad this isn't the policemen forum I work on! Now those folks run a tight ship.)

So, take your red and blue battles there. Me, my colors are silver and black

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by CleeIB

(Just be glad this isn't the policemen forum I work on! Now those folks run a tight ship.)

Well... that explains alot.

Me, my colors are silver and black

Hmmm.... silver and black? Oh yeah, wasn't that the colors of a bunch of rowdies out in Oakland that used to be a football team?