[GMAN]

There have always been those who will take bits and pieces from scriptures and use them to support their own agenda.

[MichiganDriver]

Since this thread seems to be the general purpose religion thread...

I've got a question for anyone that's religious who wants to answer it. Why is it the religious right? Why not the religious left? I don't know a lot of Bible but wasn't Jesus a big time believer in looking out for the poor? Besides the throwing the "money-changers" out of the temple situation (awesome move btw, we could use some of that today!!!), didn't he say that people should give their money away - "give all your money to the poor - you don't need it where you're going". Or something like that. I apologize if I'm not quoting correctly.

So why is religion hooked up with the party of the rich?

[GMAN]

To answer your first question about the religious right. The left started to use the term in an effort to vilify and diminish the message of those who were religious and conservative. They started to attack the messenger rather than the message. Until the mid 1960's churches were very involved in taking care of the poor and giving them a hand up. Things began to slowly change with Lyndon Johnson's "New Deal" program. There are still some churches that have programs that reach out to help the poor, but many have abandoned their mission to the government. Some get their youth involved in missions to poor regions of the world. Many don't.

Your second question had to do with giving your money away. Jesus did tell one rich man to give away his money and follow him. I think the point was for the rich man to not have anything between him and God. He also made a statement that "It is more difficult for a rich man to get into heaven than to go through the eye of a needle." That may not be an exact quote, but it is close. I believe that we are commissioned to help those less fortunate than ourselves. I know wealthy people who do give a lot to the poor. Most do so anonymously. That is the way we are supposed to do. We are supposed to give without wanting any sort of recognition or benefit in return. I can't quote the scriptures about some of this, it is from memory and I don't want to take the time to look it up. The democrats and those on the left do attempt to show those who are religious or have a belief in God to be radicals. Well, if you read the Bible, Jesus was pretty radical during his day. Your example of throwing the money changers out of the temple was a good example.

I don't know that religion is hooked up to the party of the rich. When you make that statement I assume from your tone, that you are talking about the Republicans, although I would expect that there are about as many Democrats with wealth as there are Republicans, perhaps more. I believe that Jesus was non partisan. I don't think that God is pleased with what has been going on in this country for the last several decades. This country has turned it's back on God. We have one party that has done everything possible to destroy any mention of God in our government, schools, work or even in a public gathering. I am sure you can figure which party has done that. Just because someone is rich doesn't mean that they don't profess a belief in God. Nor does coming from poverty insure that someone is close to God. God does tell us that if a man doesn't work that he should not eat. I don't think that he means that if someone is unable to work that we should not help them. But, what about all those who have been living off the taxpayers or government for several generations? If we follow the scriptures we would cut off their checks and force them to either work or starve.

At one time I would have expected that the Democrats would be more closely allied with God due to their actions. That would no longer be the case today. I don't think that God cares which party we belong to or even if we belong to any party. He sees what is in our hearts and that is what is important. When the time of judgment comes I doubt if he will ask about party affiliation. I think he might ask about what we did for our fellow man and did we leave the earth a better place. I am sorry to sound preachy.

[Kentla93]

Originally Posted by GMAN

Over the years I have seen over and over again that things in the Bible have been proven to be accurate. It seems as though every time someone sets out to disprove the Bible that they wind up proving that it is correct. I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Frankly, I don't see how anyone could NOT believe that there is a God.

Gman here is where I take issue with the bible as there is the old and the new testament... which in my feable mind tells me that God is progressive and changes with the times otherwise we would still be living under the rules of the old testament.. Just sayin... It is what it is..
So if man decided that we should no longer live by the rules of the old book and change to the new book then it stands to reason that we should continue to change as our world changes and be more acepting of our fellow man regardless of sexual orientation to include marriage for all humanity All God wants is for man to live in harmony..
I do not believe that Jesus died for me, "simple as that" He may have walked this earth but he did not walk on water, so in your minds I will live eternity in hell and in my mind I could'nt care less as I know it does not exsist, I spent the last days of my mother's life watching it drain from her and there is nothing more after that last breath other then peace fom a living hell.
Everyone has to handle life as it works for them, if it makes you feel better to believe then by all means belive, I choose not too as I see what the effects of organized religion do to humanity.. Just gooogle Westboro Baptist, spend so time in a fundementalist Christian sect, Go to Bible Camp, Better yet follow most any priest or pastor for more then thirty days and you will witness humanity and organized relgion during it's finest moments.. Hypocrisy at best...

Just my opinon, not asking any one to believe or understand..

Timberwolf

[GMAN]

Kentla, we go by both the Old and New Testament's. Some things did change after Jesus died on the cross. Thus the New Testament. One thing is that we no longer make animal sacrifices after Jesus died on the cross. There are other changes, but that was probably the most significant that I can recall.

God gave man free will. He never forces man to believe or worship him. He wants man to come willingly and to believe and worship him. The New Testament did not change the basic tenets of the Bible. He still cautions us about living a moral life and tells us how we should live. God doesn't condone homosexuality according to the Bible. In fact, he condemns the behavior. He calls it an abomination. That doesn't mean that he doesn't love homosexuals. He also doesn't condone other types of immoral behavior. We are told than Jesus did walk on water.

We are told in the Bible that unless we come to God that we will be condemning ourselves to an eternal hell. You choose to believe differently. I have seen too much of the prophesies of the Bible come to pass to NOT believe that there is a God. Whether you believe in the big bang theory or not. There had to be a catalyst. We had to come from somewhere. I have a hard time believing that everything that we see around us happened by accident. Things work too well for their to not be an intelligent planned designer. Just look at the human body. It is a very intricate machine where every organ and every cell works in unison. I find that amazing. In the Old Testament, we are told about a man named Noah and a world wide flood. There is evidence of a world wide flood. Part of the Bible is about our history. The people of Israel were enslaved for a time. The Bible tells us of events that will come to pass, such as Israel once again becoming a nation. That was foretold centuries before it happened. Israel became a nation again in 1948. It was foretold in the bible about 2,000 years earlier and is a sign of the coming end times. I have never tried to beat someone over the head with religion or the Bible. Not everyone will believe. And although we expect pastors and priests to act in a more moral manner than the rest of us, they too are only human. I know that not everyone who is in the pastorate is called by God. Even Satan has access to heaven until the end time, according to the Bible. If you look at some of God's favorites, they also had their faults. David sent his lover's husband into battle to get him killed. I don't profess to know the mind of God, nor do I consider myself any better or worse than those who don't believe. I do believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. Prayers do get answered. I find it difficult to believe that there is not a God of the universe. I don't try to push my belief's on anyone.

[golfhobo]

MichiganDriver said:

I've got a question for anyone that's religious who wants to answer it.

Why must I profess to be religious to answer it?

Why is it the religious right? Why not the religious left? I don't know a lot of Bible but wasn't Jesus a big time believer in looking out for the poor? Didn't he say that people should give their money away?

You might enjoy reading the thread I started titled "Jesus was a Liberal." Click on my username and then 'threads started by...' and it's in there.

So why is religion hooked up with the party of the rich?

This, and other answers, will be found here this weekend when I have more time. :lol:

So far..... I'm really enjoying this thread! Everyone seems to be so polite and reverent. It's almost like BEING in church. :lol:

In fact.... nice sermon, GMAN! Really.... that was quite exceptional for a "layman." Would I be wrong if I assumed that you were (or once was,) a DEACON or something like that in your church? You should be. :thumbsup:

But, Stan's got it right! IMHO! :bow:

This is one of my favorite topics. Been a rough week.... see y'all more this weekend.


BTW...... GOD did not have a wife! A "legend" that developed over centuries and was then set in pottery by a "believer," is not PROOF of anything but the legend itself! Greece is FULL of pottery showing "legends" of the GODS.... some of them women! ZEUS.... who was the "god of all the gods," DID have a wife by legend.... can't remember WHICH one!

No TRUE BELIEVER, Christian OR Jew.... would believe that God could have a wife. As someone said.... it would destroy the story of the "immaculate conception/birth" which was ALSO foretold throughout the Old Testament history... and undermine the ENTIRE foundation of both Judaism AND Christianity.

[Roadhog]

(no wife...) (mindless ponder)
hmmmmmmmm... maybe that's why there are so many Angel's......

[Kentla93]

Originally Posted by Roadhog

(no wife...) (mindless ponder)
hmmmmmmmm... maybe that's why there are so many Angel's......

Hey!!!

Those panties look just like mine....

Timberwolf

[MichiganDriver]

I think that religious folks are in a position to do themselves a couple of favors.

1. Why fight the fact that evolution was proven years ago? Wouldn't it make more sense to give God credit for it? If God created everything then God created evolution too, right? A planet where lifeforms evolve to adapt to changing conditions is of course better then a planet where all lifeforms are static. Why not give God credit for creating a better planet? The way it is now religious folks hurt their credibility by denying something provable. Not smart imho. Besides all that, what can possibly be worse for the country than not teaching our children science? Look around. We aren't alone on this planet and upstarts like China want to own us. Our children need science and math and history and english and all the rest.

2. Get out of politics. In the last 30 years religion has rammed their views down everyone's throats and it's easy to see that many people are getting sick of it. Take the gay thing for instance. Most middle of the road heterosexuals weren't supporters of gay rights until we saw how mean and nasty it is to persecute them like many religious folks do.

Religion has had a pretty sweet gig in this country, now quite frankly, you're blowing it.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

In fact.... nice sermon, GMAN! Really.... that was quite exceptional for a "layman." Would I be wrong if I assumed that you were (or once was,) a DEACON or something like that in your church? You should be. :thumbsup:

Thanks, but it wasn't meant to be a sermon. I did teach Sunday School at one time.

BTW...... GOD did not have a wife! A "legend" that developed over centuries and was then set in pottery by a "believer," is not PROOF of anything but the legend itself! Greece is FULL of pottery showing "legends" of the GODS.... some of them women! ZEUS.... who was the "god of all the gods," DID have a wife by legend.... can't remember WHICH one!

No TRUE BELIEVER, Christian OR Jew.... would believe that God could have a wife. As someone said.... it would destroy the story of the "immaculate conception/birth" which was ALSO foretold throughout the Old Testament history... and undermine the ENTIRE foundation of both Judaism AND Christianity.

God didn't have a wife. There was no need. I believe Zeus wife was Hera. I think that she was also his sister.