[robertt]

Originally Posted by cdswans

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Thos Jefferson

[Excellent thread, robertt. Don't you have a brother, libertt?]

I gotta admit CD, that went over my head. libertt? Sorry.

Benjamin Franklin:

"Our security lies, I think, in our growing strength, both in numbers and wealth; that creates an increasing ability of assisting this nation in its wars, which will make us more respectable, our friendship more valued, and our enmity feared; thence it will soon be thought proper to treat us not with justice only, but with kindness, and thence we may expect in a few years a total change of measures with regard to us; unless, by a neglect of military discipline, we should lose all martial spirit, and our western people become as tame as those in the eastern dominions of Britiain [India], when we may expect the same oppressions; for there is much truth in the Italian saying, "Make yourselves sheeep, and the wolves will eat you."

[cdswans]

liberty . .

[robertt]

Originally Posted by cdswans

liberty . .

OHHHHHHH!!! Sorry, but yes I WOULD say liberty is my brother. I appreciate it, and I'll try to do better next time.

I said it on another thread, I tend to miss the boat occasionally, that's why I'm such a good swimmer.

[Jackrabbit379]

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne

[Roadhog]

Originally Posted by Jackrabbit379

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne

John Wayne - founding father... :rofl:
So was Slim Pickens in my book. :lol:

Hedley Lamarr: My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Taggart: God darnit Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whor'*e.

[mike3fan]

Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams

[robertt]

From Alexis de Tocqueville. Who is he?

Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville (29 July 1805, Paris – 16 April 1859, Cannes) was a French political thinker and historian best known for his Democracy in America (appearing in two volumes: 1835 and 1840) and The Old Regime and the Revolution (1856). In both of these works, he explored the effects of the rising equality of social conditions on the individual and the state in western societies. Democracy in America (1835), his major work, published after his travels in the United States, is today considered an early work of sociology and political science.

I know he wasn't a founder but he spoke of them and of our religion. Sorry if it's a little long but I thought it was ONE of the ways to show how people, even from foriegn countries, saw how we regarded our religion, even back then. Plus, he was one of those "PRETTY SMART" guys and a "THINKER" as they refered to them, from back in the day.


"On my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things."

He described the situation as follows:

"Religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society, but it must be regarded as the first of their political institutions...I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion-for who can search the human heart?-but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institiutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or to a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society."

De Tocqueville pointed out that, "in France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimatlely united." He then pointed out that the early American colonists "brought with them into the New World a form of Christianity which I cannot better describe than by styling it a democratic and republican religion. This contributed powerfully to the establishment of a republic and a democracy in public affairs; and from the beginning, politics and religion contracted an alliance which has never been dissolved."

However, he emphasized the fact that this religious undergirding of the political structure was a common denominator of moral teachings in different denominations and not the political pressure of some national church hierarchy. Said he:

"The sects [different denominations] that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God....All the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same....There is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."

"I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers, and it was not there: in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and it was not there: in her rich mines and her vast world commerce, and it was not there. Not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, Amerca will cease to be great."

[robertt]

Sorry Roadhog and Jackrabbit if I hijacked anything about John Wayne, but I have been searching for an Avatar and it HIT me after reading your posts. He has been "THE DUDE" since I was a little kid and I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. I thought this one was the coolest! It was the Duke or Marvin the Martian.

[Roadhog]

Duke, excellent choice! :thumbsup:

My av for the first 4 1/2 years was



Wile E. is smart sorta,
but never has much to say.



skimmf...hoike...fluggie
heh heh heh....heh heh

[Roadhog]

I'll never forget what a great American Patriot, Ann Coulter once said.
It was more how she said it...

"Don't touch me!"