Before everyone makes this nut job a hero. It might be interesting to know that he tried to burn down his house also with his wife and daughter in it before he took off in his little suicide run. Also the fact that he was in deep doo doo with the IRS because him and some of his close friends had tried to start a church to get out of paying taxes in the first place.

 

Not calling him any kind of hero. But, it should raise a red flag for the "Powers-that-be". Is this the start of something more to come? And, in what manner will it manifest itself? Are looking at the first case of taxpayers going "postal"?

 

I see a pattern beginning to emerge. I think that this guy's level of frustration and despair is felt by many in this country. Most have not gone to the extreme......yet! I would not be surprised to see more of this type of attack against the government. People are sick and tired of being harassed by the IRS and the mismanagement by our elected officials. Americans are more than angry. Many are in a quite rage waiting to erupt. The more the government tries to shove things such as this healthcare takeover down our throats and the more the IRS attacks individuals the more people are going to fight back. I think we are also only seeing the beginning of more to come.

 

I have heard two different stories about the house fire. One had the wife and daughter pulling up to the house, and the girl screaming "Thats our home!" while the neighbor held on to her.

Man angry at IRS crashes plane into building - Yahoo! News

The other is the most published one. They were disabled inside the house and left to burn with it.

Either way..this guy isn't a "Martyr" of any sort. He is just one more pissed off and deranged coward, who didn't have the nerve to die quietly.

 

Glad Hand said:

Then start your OWN thread! This one ain't about Muslims. :lol:

I think I disagree. Sure YOUR story IS important, but not a rarity these days. Fact is.... THIS story has struck a "Tea Party" nerve in this country and possibly has implications that are far more dangerous to our society.

Okay, I'll bite. Got any evidence of this? Not saying it isn't true.... just interested in facts. However, IMHO.... it could be that using JEWS to interrogate Arabs will somehow find its way back to the Muslim world, and (in THEIR eyes) further support their contentions that we side ONLY with Israel against the entire Arab world. Whereas.... recruiting ARABS (Muslim or not) to interrogate or translate for us with OTHER Arabs, shows them that OTHERS of their "type" stand against them. (Then, of course... there is that whole "shibboleth" problem.)

 

I have been saying for YEARS that this might happen. Our country is only barely over 300 years old (not counting a few early settlements) and our government only a bit over 200. This is like being a TODDLER compared to the governments and societies of Europe let alone Middle Eastern countries.

I marvel everytime I hear a reference to "The Hundred Years War." The "American Experiment" as I like to call it, is just a blip on the radar screen of history! GREATER civilizations have fallen or been destroyed after MANY more years of existence than us.

It would be a shame if the one thing that makes us so special... our INDEPENDENT spirit.... ends up being our downfall. Not saying that we should cowtow or become sheeple.... just that patience is NOT one of our virtues.

 

GMAN said:

I don't think he IS a "martyr" and I think you are awful quick to award him that status. Sorry, but you sound just as "radical" as the Islamic fundamentalists in doing so. One cannot BE a "martyr" unless their is a CAUSE (established or not.) Are you saying that he is a Tea Party martyr? That would be funny since he also was a propenent of healthcare reform.

I felt the same way until I read the entirety of his manifesto. I've come to the conclusion.... IMHO... that he just didn't like the answers he was getting. He wanted "special" dispensation from representatives (including GOVERNORS) when THEY obviously saw that his claims didn't arise to a conflict within the law of the land. He even "admitted" that he had been "counseled" in ways to evade taxes, and CONSPIRED with others to do so.

And don't forget (as someone pointed out) his $250,000 house! Sounds to ME like he did alot better than he claimed as a software engineer! WHO can afford to go a whole year with NO INCOME (as he claimed) and live the way he did? He even admitted that he had established and then depleted his "retirement" nest egg several times! I'm still working on my FIRST!

There goes that "conspiracy" gene in you! The reports I heard said that he had really BAD aim! Of course, he WAS going 200+ mph close to the ground and in a dive, but he managed to plow STRAIGHT INTO a concrete re-inforced I-Beam which pretty much left MOST of his airplane lying on the ground outside the building. The wings of course, and the fuel (I've heard there was probably a drum of it inside the fuselage) broke through the windows and started a HECKUVA fire.... but, he actually FAILED to penetrate the building with much of the plane.

Possibly, but just for the record.... that particular facility was known as the "last resort" for a tax evader to settle his business with the IRS before going to JAIL! I believe there might be ANOTHER IRS facility in Austin, and I'm sure records are kept at BOTH facilities, but THIS one was a "special office" of last resort.

I'm not defending the government in general, or the IRS specifically in this case, but it SOUNDS like he was given every opportunity to "make a deal" and he chose violence.

 

Let's see our government uses the IRS as a weapon against it's citizens, this will not end well. just saying.

 

But, they've been doing that for YEARS! Capone himself was finally and ONLY jailed on tax evasion. The RICO laws are partially/mostly embedded in and enforced by IRS statutes.

I HAVE heard recently that the IRS is going to get tougher on "tax cheats." Why not? Most of them are the uber rich who can AFFORD to pay their taxes. Only a few are middle class "cheats."

No one LIKES the tax laws of the U.S., but MOST obey them and accept the need for taxation. The current tax rate is MUCH less than it was under Reagan.... and we "survived" that 8 year "rule."

Complaining about taxes and armed revolution are two separate things! MANY here have claimed that the "only" next step is violence. I disagree. These same "Constitutionalists" have forgotten that there are provisions for "redress" in that document, and that the FIRST "step" of a revolution should be by the VOTE. (In THIS country anyway.)

Another avenue is a class action lawsuit. Think of it.... someone starts it, and the Supremes have to "decide" it! YEARS of precedent mean NOTHING to them apparently! IF one were to word it just right.... they could see their way to, at least, ruling excessive taxation of BUSINESSES as unconstitutional! :roll:

What I am saying is, those who feel "disenfranchised" by our government in general (not just Obama) have avenues of dissent that do not include violent insurrection. They can talk all they want.... but, they WILL NOT win an armed revolt against the government. The Civil War was an aberration that lasted as long as it did ONLY because the Union's armies were ill prepared for such a "sneak attack." This will NOT HAPPEN AGAIN!

Some of our BEST minds are being wasted in an effort to rally Americans to overthrow our DULY elected (if misguided) government. It cannot happen! LEARN from the history many of you like to reference. Such revolutions rarely succeed... and then only in 3rd world countries (and often with OUR assistance!) No one has EVER succeeded the way America did in 1776.... and it will NEVER happen again!

NO foreign governments will come to "your" aid like the French did for the colonialists! The battle won't be "decided" by ships blockading ports!

An "armed" revolution in America today would last no longer than the Olympics.... and get LESS media coverage! :lol:

IF you want to change America.... you must find a way to do so within the confines OF our Constitution and with the help of those who DEFEND it! You WILL NOT "co-opt" our military into a "coup," and AGAINST them, your stockpiles of assault weapons are insignificant!

Okay, Blacksheep.... you know this was just a rant and NOT aimed at you. But, fact is.... the IRS has a "military" type force that is not unlike the ATF, FBI and SWAT.... and is interconnected WITH them. As long as the IRS tax code IS the law of the land... it WILL be enforced when and where needed!

This poor guy was nothing more than a gnat on the windshield of our government, and IMHO.... one with really poor "aim." You hear NEITHER the GOP nor the Tea Party jumping on his bandwagon right now, do you? Lip Service, maybe.... but not real "endorsement."

 

This story fills a few of the holes . .

TBO.com - News From AP

Whether or not you think this guy is a martyr, there's no question in my mind that, in his mind, he thinks he martyred himself. Granted, he's probably no closer to the 72 virgins than the Muslim strap-on bombers but in the hearts of the faithful, he's a martyr.

Let me share my favorite IRS story with you. In the mid 80's, I started a business with $200 of my own money and about $16,000 borrowed from friends and family. 18 months later, I sold the business for $90,000 and repaid the investors very generously. I followed the tax code as well and as honestly as I could interpret it but I wound up in a stink with the IRS. In the meantime, I was on to my next venture while still working cooperatively to resolve the tax issue. One morning I walked to my bank and made a substantial deposit. That afternoon, I got a call from the bank saying I needed to deposit more money or I would be bouncing checks. The bank was within easy walking distance so off I went. It turned out the IRS, against their word, seized the existing money before my deposit and the stupid bank made up the balance of their demand after my deposit without ever saying a word to me.

The short version is this: By law, the IRS was only entitled to the money that was there at the time the bank got the demand. To seize my subsequent deposit would have required a new demand from the IRS. There was no follow up demand, the bank was wrong and they had to restore my account with their money. I was made whole, the IRS was satisfied and (rhymes with) ****TYBANK was out about $35,000!