Rev, thank you for taking the time to edit my post. Very much appreciated, one big Dr. Pepper on me, if the chance arises. :thumbsup:

TF, we think alike about society, thanks for posting your thoughts.

 

All this righteous indignation just leaves me perplexed & bewildered. To wit;

1. The photo showed no blood. In fact you couldn't see any evidence of any wounds.

2.The photo did not even show the soldiers face clearly. If the story had not given his name I doubt that anyone could have identified him.

There are innumerable examples of far greater injustices being perpetrated on people all over the globe on a near constant basis. This just strikes me as a poor choice of windmills to tilt at.

I also think some people could a bit better at distinguishing between fact and opinion, and perhaps also learn that people who happen to hold opinions contrary to ones own are not necessarily evil incarnate.

That AP had the right to run the photo should not even be an issue of debate. The indisputable fact is that they did have the right. That's the way our constitution is written. In my opinion, anyone who finds this intolerable is free to find another country with a constitution (or press controls) that they like better.

Whether publishing the picture was politically or socially correct is open to debate, and entirely a matter of opinion.

Opinions on this question seem to range across the entire spectrum;

''This just isn't right. The man is dead. Not injured. Dead. Just wrong.''
From someone on the wimpy liberal Huffington Post.

'Death and the ugliness of war is not something we look forward to but a necessity to put the war in its proper context,'' said Ruiz, who also wrote the AP. ''A picture is worth a thousand words. I applaud your courage to distribute the photo and the story of the death of Lance Cpl. Bernard.'
From an ex Marine, Jorge Ruiz of Glendale AZ.

I have long been under the impression that the base concept of America is that people of differing ethnicities, religions, cultural values, and yes, political opinions could co-exist peacefully.

I've just finished 11 consecutive days of almost non-stop work, aka pear season. I'm going to sleep until I wake up, pack my camping gear & spend the next 7-10 days in the wilderness. If this debate is still raging when I return, I'll have plenty more to say.

 

The only opinion that matters is the one from the family of the dead soldier. And their opinion clearly fell on the side of not wanting it published. Their opinion was ignored, and continues to be by those who keep hooting and hollering over "they had a legal right!" No ****, sherlock. That isn't the point.

 

I’ll spell this out slowly so you can understand. :roll:

I understand what freedom of press means. Are you with me so far?

I don’t have any issues with freedom of press. Still with me?

I agree that the AP had the right to publish the pictures. Are we still connecting here?

Heck, for that matter, I agree that you have the right to view these pictures. Still here?

If we are, then let’s continue.

My issue is that the family specifically requested, not ONCE, but TWICE, that the photos not be published. They made it clear that it was agonizing to them and they did not want the photos to be a political rallying point for any side. They did not want the attention. They wanted to deal with their grief in private.

The AP chose to ignore the family request. They chose to add to the family’s pain at losing their loved one. They chose to ‘sell a paper’. Can you even imagine what this family is going through right now? No, I guess you probably don’t. I know that Fozzy does, but the nastiness and callous disregard that has been displayed by a few people on this board have done a nice job in driving him off. Congrats, fellows. Contact the White House for your medals of honor. :thumbsdown:

So, you’re saying that I should ignore this gross injustice and find another one to talk about, so that you feel better about yourself. I happen to think the family got steamrolled in an inexcusable way and I happen to think it’s a valid topic to discuss, particularly since it came up in this forum. I’m not really sure that I give a damn that you don’t think I have the right to consider this an important topic just because you don’t. :roll:

It’s a rather interesting conundrum that it places me in, too. I will go out of my way to help someone in need and I will be the first to stand up and defend someone that was dealt dirty. But by and large, I detest people in general more so today than I ever have. The more I see of people and their total disrespect of others, the more I can’t stand humanity. This whole situation is a perfect example – insignificant to you, but certainly significant to this family and to those that support them. It’s just another shining example of how low humanity today has descended. In your mad rush to declare freedom of the press and your right to view the picture of a dying soldier, some of you people have conveniently overlooked the fact that there is a dead son here, that there is a family grieving over their loss. That is absolutely appalling. But what is even worse is that you are the same people screaming about invasion of privacy, unless of course it’s not your privacy that’s being invaded. This family has been plastered across the front pages of newspapers all over the world. Pictures of their dying son is most likely tacked to the inside of insurgent tents all over the middle east and beyond. But not once do you talk about how their privacy has been invaded and how their rights have been utterly trampled. No, it's all about YOUR right and to hell with the family and their pain and anguish.

The hypocrisy is beyond astounding.

That’s rich coming from someone that believes their own rights outweigh the rights of another individual, or in this case, the rights of a grieving family. :roll: When you don’t believe in individual happiness and protection against injustice of any kind, then your boat sailed a long time ago.

Again, my whole point with my last post was not to argue against freedom of press or your ‘right’ to see images of a dying soldier. If that’s your bag, that’s for you to deal with. I think it's sick, twisted, and perverted, but I concede that's my opinion.

My point was that we have sunk far below the depths of depravity, not just in this, but in just about everything we do anymore. What distresses me more than anything is the dehumanizing of humanity and you made my point perfectly by stating in so many words that YOUR rights trump the rights of the family.

That makes YOU part of the problem. And again, no matter how much you spin it, squirm around it, or try to ignore it, you cannot do it. You cannot rebut it. And no one should excuse it.

You can come back and talk all you want. I’m done. But do let me know when your rights are trampled as thoroughly as the rights of this family. Whether you believe in karma or fate, it does have a habit of coming back and smacking you in the face. Good luck with that one. :roll:

 

Rev, you aren't old enough to know of these remarks

 

Thank God, some one else gets it. It's about respect,kindness, and compassion, not laws or constitution. Just decency. Which begs the the question, where did we lose this????

 

I hate to do a +1 here, but it deserves it. I don't understand not having the ability to respect the families wishes, I really don't.

 

RELUCTANTLY reopening this. If it gets personal again, then temp bans will be issued. Keep it about the topic, and not about each other.

 

I’m done with the actual debate here because quite frankly, there is nothing anyone can say to excuse the publishing of the pics. It was done against the wishes of the family, period, and thus makes the publishing of them and the limited defense of the AP, MORALLY WRONG. End of story.

But I do want to point something out. Fozzy made a really good point in an e-mail to me, one that I had not thought of and I know that those defending the AP have not thought of. That point is, it is never over for the families of these fallen heroes.

Think about it. You read the story, see the picture, and move on with your life and the next thing. The family cannot do that. The picture is out there now…it’ll post again in stories and blogs and debates time and time again. How many times now will the family have to relive this? Fozzy has seen it with his own son…pictures of Michael just popping up here and there in stories and magazines. Thank God there are no pictures showing up of his wounded son on the battlefield. But what if they do? And to this recent family that had the pictures published…what if the really bad ones get leaked and published? They know those pictures exist. Fozzy knows they exist of his son. And I’m certain there are hundreds more families out there under the same dark cloud. And now they have to live in fear every day for the rest of their lives that those pictures will show up…that their son’s deaths will be splashed across newspapers, magazines, and the internet. They’ll be used as political ammunition and they’ll be used to ‘sell papers.’ They’ll have to relive it all over again.

This is not about the war…this is not about whether or not you agree with our reasons for fighting in the middle east. We are at war, for better or worse. The point here is the callous disregard of a grieving family to ‘sell a paper.’ If the AP is going to trounce the rights of this family and post this picture of their dying son, what’s next? Because it won’t stop there…not a chance. And if you think it will, you’re delusional. The AP did it and got away with it and Pandora’s Box is now open. They or someone else will eventually take the next step and the first gruesome picture of a battlefield casualty will one day soon show up on the front page of your Sunday paper or favorite online news source. You know, this is what our enemy does. Terrorists delight in showing pictures and videos of their killings of soldiers and beheading of prisoners and they’re probably pretty tickled that the AP is on board with their campaign now. I’d ask how we have descended to such a level of depraved selfishness, but I already know the answer to that.

Once again, it makes me glad I believe in what I believe in, because I have zero faith in humanity anymore.

 

I wrote this the day after the AP published the pictures of L/Cpl Bernard. I have since spoken with Joshua's father..


Joshua Bernard is my son's brother... they served the same Nation. They wore different uniforms but they shared a like minded pride and need to protect the innocent and free the oppressed. Joshua's family is now on the same painful path of grief I am and share with many others... they too are now my family. My heart goes out the Bernard family.. for the loss of their son and for the abuse they are now suffering at the hands of the AP wire service. I stand beside them in there grief and this fight.

I am truly tired of the abuse put upon our military members and their families. I am all about the Constitution and the 1st Amendment. It is what my son stood for and fought for. I have been known to state often that we don't have the right to not be offended but this is not about offending someone.. this about inflicting intentional pain on them. It's about emotionally torturing the families and this man's fellow soldiers. it's about taking L/cpl Joshua Bernard's dignity from him. And it was most assuredly intentional. No argument is sufficient for this behavior. This is not about the "public needs to know". This is about tearing down the morale of our troops and their families.

It is time for the military to pull out embedded reporters. I hate to say that because there are some who are very good and respect the troops a great deal, like Michael Yon. But when this type of thing happens repeatedly it's time to go back to morning briefings on the events of this war and controlling what is shared. To protect our troops and their families.

As a military family, as a nation, we must stand together and share our strength. We have to become more vocal in how our Fallen are exploited and find a way to stop it! Their loss of life in combat does not make them open to the public to be used and abused in death for others personal agendas. As it stands right now the families of the Fallen have very limited say in how their soldier's name and images are used. A few states have passed laws to stop them from being used for financial gain. But anyone can use the names of these men and women for their political agenda. even when the person who's name being used was against the agenda. Even when the family says NO... and we can't do a damned thing.

My son died for this country... that does not make him the property of anyone else. It makes him an American who deserves respect, honor and his dignity. And the same goes for every single man and woman who has ever served.