[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Ridge Runner

issedoff: It's statements like this that cause me to cross the line when posting here. I truly hope it is never you that is sitting there grieving for your son or daughter and have your/their life used to promote an agenda. If you want to, that is YOUR choice, as it should ALWAYS be. The AP was wrong!

Yeah, I SAW that I had mispelled a word, but got distracted before I could correct it. Big deal! :roll:

Maybe, that phrase wasn't the best choice of words, but my point is that the AP (and others) have a job to do, and the whole works shouldn't get gummed up just because someone lost a son. They should be busy burying him and let the media do whatever they do.

I haven't seen the picture.... don't CARE to.... haven't read the accompanying story.... don't care to! But, I have heard NOTHING that makes me believe this story had ANY "agenda" to it.

As for Fozzy's rant..... I served my time pretty much the way HE did, and I don't appreciate being called a coward anymore than HE would. So stuff that crap where the sun don't shine!

I don't really HAVE an agenda concerning the war. I don't agree with wars in general, am clearly on the record about the war of CHOICE in Iraq. I don't beleive the Afghan war was necessary to "get" Bin Laden..... but, if the U.S. wants to go flex their muscles I couldn't really care less!

But, if we go to war, I want to see "factual" reporting of it!

As for someone's idea that there is an "agenda" that showing these pictures will stifle enlistments? I never even thought about it! I can see where some might think it might get people to be against the war, but I don't disagree with that. We're not really winning. We've made a mess of the whole region! And we haven't gotten Bin Laden!

But, I am PRO-military. I think it is a good thing. Heck.... I've advocated MANDATORY service like they have in Israel! I wouldn't have a problem with re-instituting the DRAFT if we keep getting mired in wars like this!

I just don't quite understand the big deal about showing pictures of war casualties! I wouldn't care if it WAS my own son! If I don't want to SEE it.... I don't have to LOOK! I would think I would have more to worry about than whether or not someone had an "agenda" when they published it.

All you people who claim that AP was wrong... and that settles it.... need to get a clue! YOU don't have a patent on what is right or wrong. Many people at high levels within that organization debated for hours if not days as to whether they should publish the picture. THEY know a little about right and wrong, too! And they know more about their business than YOU do!

And I'm getting sick and tired of some who think that any American who opposes the war is somehow a coward or has an "agenda." Don't you think YOU, who support the war, have an "agenda?" Decent human beings can have differing opinions on such things as wars and politics. YOU are no better because you want to go kill eveyone who doesn't like America! Get OVER yourselves! issedoff:

[RostyC]

Originally Posted by "golfhobo

All you people who claim that AP was wrong... and that settles it.... need to get a clue!

Actually, we have a clue, its a clue about showing some basic human compassion and respect.

YOU don't have a patent on what is right or wrong.

Don't need a patent for knowing how to respect others and their wishes over their deceased family member, it should be inherent, but I guess not.

Many people at high levels within that organization debated for hours if not days as to whether they should publish the picture.

They knew the outcome before they even debated. It was just a show and a chance to throw a free lunch on the expense account. If you believe otherwise you're very naive or don't have a clue how things work.

THEY know a little about right and wrong, too!

Really? why? explain this.

And they know more about their business than YOU do!

This isn't about business, it's about basic human respect toward your fellow man.

Don't you like to be respected and to also give respect to other people gh? or is ok to trample over one another as long as it's business, or there in your way of something you want.

[golfhobo]

RostyC said:

Actually, we have a clue, its a clue about showing some basic human compassion and respect.

Don't need a patent for knowing how to respect others and their wishes over their deceased family member, it should be inherent, but I guess not.

And you think you are the ONLY ones who have compassion? You have a CORNER on respect? Because I disagree with YOUR idea of it.... I am some kind of subhuman?

I suppose you never saw or watched the Zapruder film of the assassination of JFK? SURE you did! So, get off your high horse!

They knew the outcome before they even debated. It was just a show and a chance to throw a free lunch on the expense account. If you believe otherwise you're very naive or don't have a clue how things work.

You were THERE, then? You ate the finger sandwiches? You're making claims you haven't the pedigree to make. IF the outcome was preordained, WHY have the show? Your "opinion" has clouded your reading of the facts. You've drank too much FOXNews Koolaid, and have NO IDEA what goes on in the world of "wartime journalism." Don't EVEN pretend that you know! If you think "I" have no clue..... why don't you SKOOL me? Tell me all you know about the news business..... and "how things work." IF you can't.... you are just stating YOUR opinon, and making accusations to support your politicized view.

Really? why? explain this.

If I have to explain to you the inner workings of a news agency.... how they vet their stories, check their facts, and make DECISIONS of what they should or shouldn't publish.... we'll be here a LONG time! I suggest YOU go to college and take some Journalism courses first.

This isn't about business, it's about basic human respect toward your fellow man.

You STILL don't get it, do you? The NEWS business "IS" a business.... but more importantly.... they can't let too much EMOTION rule what they do. They have to cover the good AND the bad in the World. They don't HAVE the luxury of "suppressing" the truth because it is uncomfortable.

Don't you like to be respected and to also give respect to other people gh? or is ok to trample over one another as long as it's business, or there in your way of something you want.

I thank you for the question. YES.... I like to be respected. I was RAISED on giving respect to others. I am the FIRST to oppose "trampling over people for business 'gain.'" But, I am against "censoring" the media because someone's feelings might get hurt.

Where were YOU when the media published the photo of the vietcong sympathizer who had his brains blown out on national T.V? Where were YOU when they showed Jackie O cradling her stricken husband? Where was your outrage when they showed MLK on the balcony seconds after being shot? What is so FRIGGIN special about each and every one of our military men who die in battle? And what has become of our "American Idol" society when we give the political "reins" of our policy to the gold star families?

This is EXACTLY the softness that Al Quaida has counted on, and even spoken about on their tapes. America hasn't got the GUTS to see their children die in this war! It seems that they might be RIGHT! Gen. Patton is probably turning in his grave!

You have absolutely NO IDEA how much or how often I cry for those lost in this stupid war! You haven't seen the tears I've shed just reading Fozzy's blog! And you SURE don't know how I feel about a child I never got to know! So.... don't PRESUME to put "labels" on ME!

The point you responded to.... and the point I was making.... is that NO ONE has a patent on what is "right or wrong!" IMHO.... not even GOD has that patent! He DID have "his people" slaughter some other people that he didn't like... right? It's IN the Bible! :hellno:

So, my point is..... get OFF your high horse, as YOU are not privy to the discussions of a national news agency.... and let THEM decide whether or not they should publish the photos.

And I might suggest... though I doubt you or others will comply.... that you don't EVER question MY patriotism, respect or "bravery" again!

If you want to UNDERSTAND why I think the way I do.... your questions will be answered. Perhaps, you can LEARN something through a discussion with me. Perhaps, I will learn something from YOU, if offered without condescension.

As I said earlier, I entered this discussion ONLY on the points of LAW. You know that is what I like to argue. I tried to stay OUT of the "moral" issue. Somehow, I got dragged into that. So be it. I'm not skeert.

But, I DO understand that many of us see morality in a different light, and I'm not REALLY interested in arguing morality or trying to change anyone's idea of it. But, when you or anyone else attacks me on "moral" grounds... you will get a fight.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

You STILL don't get it, do you? The NEWS business "IS" a business.... but more importantly.... they can't let too much EMOTION rule what they do. They have to cover the good AND the bad in the World. They don't HAVE the luxury of "suppressing" the truth because it is uncomfortable.

As much as it pains me to use the term, I think they should have thought about the "spirit" of what they were doing, and respected the family's wishes. The press suppresses stories all the time, and have done so for decades. They could have published the story without the picture. The picture wasn't the story.

[RostyC]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

And you think you are the ONLY ones who have compassion?

no

You have a CORNER on respect?

Never said that

Because I disagree with YOUR idea of it.... I am some kind of subhuman?

Never said that but.......your words speak for themselves

I suppose you never saw or watched the Zapruder film of the assassination of JFK? SURE you did! So, get off your high horse!

I'm not sure how this relevant but, yes I saw it when I watched the movie JFK (Oliver Stone film). Other than that no, I don't get off on fatalities. Some do I guess?

You were THERE, then? You ate the finger sandwiches?

Were you?

You're making claims you haven't the pedigree to make.

How do you know?

IF the outcome was preordained, WHY have the show?

You're showing your ignorance gh

Your "opinion" has clouded your reading of the facts. You've drank too much FOXNews Koolaid,

I don't watch Fox

and have NO IDEA what goes on in the world of "wartime journalism."

Business is business doesn't matter the trade

Don't EVEN pretend that you know!

Sorry but I do, been there seen it at work

If you think "I" have no clue..... why don't you SKOOL me?

You won't listen

Tell me all you know about the news business..... and "how things work."

Again your showing your ignorance business is business it's all the same

IF you can't.... you are just stating YOUR opinon, and making accusations to support your politicized view.

Again it's not politics or as you say "business" it's just respect for the family.

If I have to explain to you the inner workings of a news agency.... how they vet their stories, check their facts, and make DECISIONS of what they should or shouldn't publish.... we'll be here a LONG time!

I have time go ahead let's hear the wisdom of trampling over other people for monetary gain or some big "story"

I suggest YOU go to college and take some Journalism courses first.

What does a college education in journalism have to do with what the right thing to do is?

You STILL don't get it, do you? The NEWS business "IS" a business

Have you ever had a business, the reason I ask is because the ones running around saying business is business sorry about that, usually don't have the first clue, now what's your "pedigree"?

.... but more importantly.... they can't let too much EMOTION rule what they do. They have to cover the good AND the bad in the World. They don't HAVE the luxury of "suppressing" the truth because it is uncomfortable.

Until it's uncomfortable to you, and I'll defend you too in that situation.

I thank you for the question. YES.... I like to be respected. I was RAISED on giving respect to others. I am the FIRST to oppose "trampling over people for business 'gain.'" But, I am against "censoring" the media because someone's feelings might get hurt.

But this is what you don't get gh, there are plenty of families out there that would say yes use my sons picture in his final moments as a story for the war, but this family ASKED that it not be done, and to hell with them the AP did it anyway!!! Jeezuz man why is this so hard to understand???

Where were YOU when the media published the photo of the vietcong sympathizer who had his brains blown out on national T.V? Where were YOU when they showed Jackie O cradling her stricken husband? Where was your outrage when they showed MLK on the balcony seconds after being shot? What is so FRIGGIN special about each and every one of our military men who die in battle? And what has become of our "American Idol" society when we give the political "reins" of our policy to the gold star families?

Oh wow, I don't know what's special about some one who dies in war for this country so you can continue to drive a truck through out it? Are you friggin serious?

This is EXACTLY the softness that Al Quaida has counted on, and even spoken about on their tapes. America hasn't got the GUTS to see their children die in this war! It seems that they might be RIGHT! Gen. Patton is probably turning in his grave!

BS

You have absolutely NO IDEA how much or how often I cry for those lost in this stupid war!

How do you shed tears for people that aren't "so special when they die in battle" That's BS!

You haven't seen the tears I've shed just reading Fozzy's blog! And you SURE don't know how I feel about a child I never got to know! So.... don't PRESUME to put "labels" on ME!

Why not you presume to know that putting a fallen soldiers face on the front page is just fine no matter the "feelings" of the family right. Not so fun when it's done to you huh?

The point you responded to.... and the point I was making.... is that NO ONE has a patent on what is "right or wrong!" IMHO.... not even GOD has that patent! He DID have "his people" slaughter some other people that he didn't like... right? It's IN the Bible! :hellno:

I don't believe in the Bible, try again

So, my point is..... get OFF your high horse, as YOU are not privy to the discussions of a national news agency.... and let THEM decide whether or not they should publish the photos.

They can do they want, but I can also comment on it.

And I might suggest... though I doubt you or others will comply.... that you don't EVER question MY patriotism, respect or "bravery" again!

Oh no, I can do whatever I want, and to hell with how you feel about it, that's your argument.

If you want to UNDERSTAND why I think the way I do.... your questions will be answered. Perhaps, you can LEARN something through a discussion with me. Perhaps, I will learn something from YOU, if offered without condescension.

Perhaps but why do I have ask certain questions, if you want to explain yourself do so.

As I said earlier, I entered this discussion ONLY on the points of LAW. You know that is what I like to argue. I tried to stay OUT of the "moral" issue. Somehow, I got dragged into that. So be it. I'm not skeert.

I never grabbed you kicking and screaming, and neither did anyone else.

But, I DO understand that many of us see morality in a different light, and I'm not REALLY interested in arguing morality or trying to change anyone's idea of it. But, when you or anyone else attacks me on "moral" grounds... you will get a fight.

Not much of a fight really, your wrong.







I took the liberty of fixing the format for you, Rosty. I thought what you had to say was worth it. ~Rev

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

As much as it pains me to use the term, I think they should have thought about the "spirit" of what they were doing, and respected the family's wishes. The press suppresses stories all the time, and have done so for decades. They could have published the story without the picture. The picture wasn't the story.

:clap::clap::clap:

I'm sure that WAS painful for you to admit that there IS a "spirit" to laws and/or "mores" for the media. I totally understand your viewpoint.

The press suppresses stories all the time, and have done so for decades.

I don't totally disagree with this. But, I am not in a postion to think that I know MORE than THEY do about this particular story. I suppose you would have been in favor of "suppressing" the picture of CHAPPAQUIDICK?

They could have published the story without the picture. The picture wasn't the story.

Again, I find myself agreeing with your statement. But, ONLY to a degree. The picture TOLD the story! The picture should have never BECOME the story!

As I said.... I didn't READ the story, and didn't CARE to see the picture. The STORY is the WAR.... and the lives that are lost in it!

I'm sorry, but I don't see how we can fight a war if EVERY casualty has to be "vetted" by the family whose child is the subject of the picture! Given the trend, I'd think we'd have a real SANITIZED war! And I happen to think that Americans NEED to see the reality of this WAR!

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of families who've lost children in this war who are AGAINST it! But, who is publicizing THEIR voice? NONE that I know of!

Had it BEEN a child of someone who was "basically" against the war, would they have given their permission? Would they have WANTED the world to see the horrors of it? Would it EVEN have been an issue? I doubt it! It is ONLY when it is the son of a "Conservative" that it becomes an issue!

Because.... the "conservatives" have this idea that only THEY are right about this war! That only THEY are losing sons! :hellno:

[golfhobo]

Whatever!

[Twilight Flyer]

Hey Hobo…

I just don't quite understand the big deal about showing pictures of war casualties! I wouldn't care if it WAS my own son! If I don't want to SEE it.... I don't have to LOOK! I would think I would have more to worry about than whether or not someone had an "agenda" when they published it.

Let me tidy this up for you a bit. There we go…try this one on for size.

I just don't quite understand the big deal about showing pictures of people mangled and killed by drunk drivers! I wouldn't care if it WAS my own son! If I don't want to SEE it.... I don't have to LOOK! I would think I would have more to worry about than whether or not someone had an "agenda" when they published it.

Oh wait, I did it wrong. Let’s try this one.

I just don't quite understand the big deal about showing pictures of child p0rn! I wouldn't care if it WAS my own son! If I don't want to SEE it.... I don't have to LOOK! I would think I would have more to worry about than whether or not someone had an "agenda" when they published it.

Now, how’s that grab you? I could keep going, you know? So, do you care now? It’s the same damn thing, no matter how you try to spin it and if you say you don’t care, then you’re either a bald-faced liar or you are a cold-blooded SOB. People with a heart will care when the innocent are attacked.

If you want to argue freedom of press and your rights to the news, you’ll find no one arguing against you. We understand the whole freedom of the press thing. What people are arguing and you are COMPLETELY missing is the right and decent and moral thing to do for the family. What about the rights of the parents who are at ground zero for this. Why do YOUR rights trump their rights? Are you that much better than them?

And even worse, what’s next? Getting up close and personal to auto accident victims? Fire victims? Murder victims? Should we go ahead and splash their death scenes on the front page in eye-catching Durabrite ink? Where do you draw the line?

You know, my wife wonders why humanity disgusts me so much these days. It’s because people have pretty much stopped caring for others. Today, it’s all about me, me, me, and **** everyone else and the horse they road in on. It’s one of the reasons I have backed myself out of most political discussions these days. I am so sick of the liberal ‘all about me and my needs’ attitude displayed by liberals these days. It absolutely sickens me to the point of…well, I can’t even describe how jaded I am to humanity in general.

Bottom line, if you don’t see how this was morally wrong and the product of an absolutely morally bankrupt institution (the press) who’s only goal today is ‘anything to sell a story’, then you are part of the problem. You have no argument about that; you have no grounds whatsoever for a rebuttal. If you cannot see how the parents and family of this young man have been systematically brutalized by an institution that long ago used to be on their side, then you are part of the problem. Period.

[dobry4u]

Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer

Bottom line, if you don’t see how this was morally wrong and the product of an absolutely morally bankrupt institution (the press) who’s only goal today is ‘anything to sell a story’, then you are part of the problem.

Unfortunately Golfhobo is not alone. The choice to publish the picture as you stated was to "sell" the story and society drove this decision. And who but society dictates morals?

[Twilight Flyer]

Society today sucks. If I was an alien invader from another planet sent to observe earth and mankind in general, I’d be ordering in the fleet to vaporize the dominant species. Individually, there are some bright spots. But the overall picture today of what we have become is beyond bleak.

Again, I’m glad I believe what I believe about a higher power. If I didn’t, there wouldn’t be much to keep me from finding some place to play Robinson Crusoe. Don’t get me wrong, though. I love my life, I have a great life that is very fulfilling…I just get so frustrated with what I perceive to be the de-humanizing of humanity. Today, we’re little better than animals and in many cases, much worse. This whole thing with the picture is a perfect example. People, from those that made the decision to those that support the decision to screw over the family because ‘they deserve freedom of press despite the pain it causes the family’, have totally forgotten what it’s like to be human and act human.

And that cannot be explained away. It cannot be rebutted. And it cannot be excused. :tears: