[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by mike3fan

See I don't even get why this was tagged onto the end of this? Who made the jump from kids playing until the street lights come on to hurricanes and floods? Religous zealots I suppose...

I agree, but for a slightly different reason. Jay Leno made a JOKE. That's what he does. :roll:

My question is how did anyone make the jump from "the good ole days" and how kids today are WUSSES.... to the fact that anyone who doesn't believe in GOD should delete this because it doesn't apply to him... or because he implicitly doesn't agree about the "good ole days."

Religious zealots can't make a SIMPLE observation about life in general without "preaching."

What is the author saying? That God watched over all generations UP TO and including the 70's.... but not those AFTER?? That's how ridiculous that sounds!

I miss the good ole days as much as anyone. But, I don't think they were BETTER in some way because of a belief in GOD (that must be lacking now as is IMPLIED.)

Oh... and I just LOVE pointing this out to religious FREAKS.... You mentioned those who survived the 30's, 40's and 50's. I doubt you REALIZE that "under GOD" didn't get INSERTED into the pledge of allegiance until 1954. So ALL those kids born (or actually in school) before that date, were PROTECTED from all that crap.... WITHOUT God being part of our pledge of allegiance.

Declaring "allegiance" to GOD, was something that was forced on British subjects... which is in part WHY our forefathers came to America and established a SECULAR form of government. Such allegiance to ALLAH (God) is even today FORCED on billions of Muslims and even non Muslim Arabs... under penalty of DEATH!

It is UNConstitutional to FORCE an American citizen, in the process of swearing allegiance to the "Republic" to ALSO acknowledge, let alone swear allegiance to, GOD.

[Ridge Runner]

Dang you guys bring back memories. One thing I noticed about Rat_Packs post was that the parents were responsible for their kids.It wasn't I didn't get into trouble because of my fear of the police or the school officials....... It was the fear of my Dad's belt :eek2: of worse.... my Mom's fly swatter. That damn thing hurt!!!! :lol:

[wildkat]

Good lord...the memories...

AS I sat here reading this I started to remember...

How I learned to drive the tractor...I was SIX! First thing I did was drove it through the fence my dad spent all day building!

Then my brother & I decided to build a tree house...I can't remember how old I was maybe 10 or 11, I do remember the thing falling to the ground...WITH US IN IT!

Then playing "cowboys & indians" in the field...we used to run our horses from one end of 40 acres to another screaming like banshees...slam into the next kid, knock him off his horse & run like hell to the far end of the field WITH his horse in tow! The kid that got unseated (we ALL rode bareback) had to WALK or catch a ride with one of his buddies to get his horse back!

I DO remember the WORK too! Baling all damned day, stooking bales, then bringing them in, chores that had to be done...we raised horses & took some in for boarding, stalls to be cleaned, riding the bus to school...built muscles & CHARACTER!

Then in winter...the "flying saucer" behind the horse on a lariat!

Those WERE the days!

[matcat]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I agree, but for a slightly different reason. Jay Leno made a JOKE. That's what he does. :roll:

My question is how did anyone make the jump from "the good ole days" and how kids today are WUSSES.... to the fact that anyone who doesn't believe in GOD should delete this because it doesn't apply to him... or because he implicitly doesn't agree about the "good ole days."

Religious zealots can't make a SIMPLE observation about life in general without "preaching."

What is the author saying? That God watched over all generations UP TO and including the 70's.... but not those AFTER?? That's how ridiculous that sounds!

I miss the good ole days as much as anyone. But, I don't think they were BETTER in some way because of a belief in GOD (that must be lacking now as is IMPLIED.)

Oh... and I just LOVE pointing this out to religious FREAKS.... You mentioned those who survived the 30's, 40's and 50's. I doubt you REALIZE that "under GOD" didn't get INSERTED into the pledge of allegiance until 1954. So ALL those kids born (or actually in school) before that date, were PROTECTED from all that crap.... WITHOUT God being part of our pledge of allegiance.

Declaring "allegiance" to GOD, was something that was forced on British subjects... which is in part WHY our forefathers came to America and established a SECULAR form of government. Such allegiance to ALLAH (God) is even today FORCED on billions of Muslims and even non Muslim Arabs... under penalty of DEATH!

It is UNConstitutional to FORCE an American citizen, in the process of swearing allegiance to the "Republic" to ALSO acknowledge, let alone swear allegiance to, GOD.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Uhm, I don't see where it says allegiance to God, it says one nation UNDER GOD. First off, this country was NOT formed on secular government. It was formed by Christians, the constitution as it was originally drafted was based on Biblical principles. the idea of 'separation of church and state' never has been and is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution, it is a term coined in the 50's. I find it funny that so many courts around this country decided to ban nativity scenes at christmas, yet they display religious icons from other religions. If you want to take all reference of religion out of government bodies, then take it ALL out. The idea of UNDER GOD was to signify this country was based on God and under His blessing, however this country has taken itself out of that umbrella of blessing, and is now reaping the consequences. This country is no longer under God, therefor no longer under His blessing.

A good Christian is going to speak the Word of God, it is part of their belief, the Bible says plant the seed (the word), and someone else will come and water it, so that it may grow (Take root in your heart). The bible teaches Chirstians that by spreading the Word they will be blessed, and the word will give a chance to set a foothold in the person whom hears it, so they may one day be saved.

You don't see me on here preaching hell stone and fire, and asking for all your money so you don't go to hell, and I don't see anyone else out there saying that either, so take your 'zelot' stereotype and apply it to the proper persons.

[GTR SILVER]

Originally Posted by matcat

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Uhm, I don't see where it says allegiance to God, it says one nation UNDER GOD. First off, this country was NOT formed on secular government. It was formed by Christians, the constitution as it was originally drafted was based on Biblical principles. the idea of 'separation of church and state' never has been and is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution, it is a term coined in the 50's. I find it funny that so many courts around this country decided to ban nativity scenes at christmas, yet they display religious icons from other religions. If you want to take all reference of religion out of government bodies, then take it ALL out. The idea of UNDER GOD was to signify this country was based on God and under His blessing, however this country has taken itself out of that umbrella of blessing, and is now reaping the consequences. This country is no longer under God, therefor no longer under His blessing.

A good Christian is going to speak the Word of God, it is part of their belief, the Bible says plant the seed (the word), and someone else will come and water it, so that it may grow (Take root in your heart). The bible teaches Chirstians that by spreading the Word they will be blessed, and the word will give a chance to set a foothold in the person whom hears it, so they may one day be saved.

You don't see me on here preaching hell stone and fire, and asking for all your money so you don't go to hell, and I don't see anyone else out there saying that either, so take your 'zelot' stereotype and apply it to the proper persons.

well said.....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[golfhobo]

matcat quoted:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

English lesson: the COLON indicates a "list" or "inclusive" items. Therefore, when pledging to the REPUBLIC, one must "admit" that it is ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

Uhm, I don't see where it says allegiance to God, it says one nation UNDER GOD.

I didn't say that we had to pledge allegiance TO GOD in this country. Other countries DO force this. I said, our pledge (now) contains an allegiance to a Republic that is DEFINED as being "under God." There actually is no proof that there IS a God, but if there were, our pledge requires that we admit that HE is our supreme ruler. This is akin to the Ayatollah Khomeini being the "supreme ruler" of Iran. In the United States of America.... the SUPREME ruler is the LAW, as defined by the Supreme Court. Not even the President is above that LAW.

First off, this country was NOT formed on secular government. It was formed by Christians, the constitution as it was originally drafted was based on Biblical principles. the idea of 'separation of church and state' never has been and is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution, it is a term coined in the 50's.

That is just not true. The "country" may have been "settled" by MOSTLY Christians, but the GOVERNMENT was established under the Constitution... and it most certainly DOES have a "separation clause" that says the government shall make NO laws restricting or ESTABLISHING any religion. This is why churches are not TAXED! IF they "abuse" their APOLITICAL exemption, and enter or influence politics, they can and should be taxed.

Also.... read the Constitution. Show me where it even MENTIONS God. And then read the part about how NON-White persons were not worth the same as White persons.... and then find me a Biblical reference that supports that contention!

One could say that the Taliban governs by "religious principles." The Koran is almost identical to the Bible. MOST governments throughout time have been based on "religious" beliefs of one type or another. OURS was supposed to be DIFFERENT!

As you say, the "term" separation of church and state" was coined in the 50's.... as a Constitutional argument to the insertion of "under God" into our pledge of allegiance in 1954. It was based on the Constitution (I don't have time to look up the article) that FORBIDS the government to ESTABLISH or CONDONE a particular... or ANY... religion.

I find it funny that so many courts around this country decided to ban nativity scenes at christmas, yet they display religious icons from other religions. If you want to take all reference of religion out of government bodies, then take it ALL out.

I have no time for this overall discussion, but for the most part, I agree with you.

The idea of UNDER GOD was to signify this country was based on God and under His blessing, however this country has taken itself out of that umbrella of blessing, and is now reaping the consequences. This country is no longer under God, therefor no longer under His blessing.

What you MAY not realize is.... it was inserted in 1954.... LONG AFTER the founding of our country.... as a "political statement" against the "godless foundation of the COMMUNIST regime of the USSR.

As for your "analysis" of our current state, and its repurcussions.... you have just given credence to, and background for, the Rev. Wright's comments in that ignomous sermon of why..."God BLESS America??? God (should) DAMM America!"

A good Christian is going to speak the Word of God, it is part of their belief, the Bible says plant the seed (the word), and someone else will come and water it, so that it may grow (Take root in your heart). The bible teaches Chirstians that by spreading the Word they will be blessed, and the word will give a chance to set a foothold in the person whom hears it, so they may one day be saved.

If you think you are telling me anything I don't know, you haven't been paying attention. My father is a revered Preacher/Pastor, and I am well versed in what the Bible says. I don't have time right now to explain to you the difference between "spreading the Word" in the manner it was commanded, and the religious ABUSE that the Right Wing / Moral Majority is currently using to denegrate Democrats and Liberals.... or anyone ELSE who doesn't think the way they do.

You don't see me on here preaching hell stone and fire, and asking for all your money so you don't go to hell, and I don't see anyone else out there saying that either, so take your 'zelot' stereotype and apply it to the proper persons.

No, I don't. I really have had no problem with the way YOU have given your "testimony" here on CAD. You, YOURSELF, have mentioned lately that you are becoming a bit more "engaged" in it.... but, I STILL find it non-offensive.

The "zealot" stereotype was NOT meant for YOU! So, put your claws back in! :thumbsup:

At the same time.... I might suggest you do some research into when, why and how the phrase "under God" was inserted into the pledge so that you will not make the mistake OTHERS have made in claiming that it was part of our nation's "foundation." And so that you will be better informed before you again argue with me about it.

But, I DO like a good "debate." :lol2::clap:

[bigrigjoe66]

My question is how did anyone make the jump from "the good ole days" and how kids today are WUSSES.... to the fact that anyone who doesn't believe in GOD should delete this because it doesn't apply to him... or because he implicitly doesn't agree about the "good ole days."

Religious zealots can't make a SIMPLE observation about life in general without "preaching."

I guess I should have taken the part out at the end. I am not a religious zealot. I have not been to church in 25 years or more. I do believe in God. And I do beleive that all this cowering down to the liberal b/s is making our country suffer. I can't belive anyone who was a kid in those times sees it any other way. By taking God out of everything and not offending anyone in any way has made our country change, for the worst. I don't remember kids divorcing parents because the are being punished to much or any Columbine shootings back then.

Now you can't even say Christmas without a leftwing freak yelling they are offended. Hell, the president just made a speach at a religious college but covered up the religious symbols in the background. WTF is that...Waterboarding, oh my God lets not pour water on the faces of the guys who want to kill thousands of us that would be mean. I say to hell with them. I would pour honey on them and tie them down to a fire ant bed if it would save 1 american.

Anyway I am off point.. I honestly beleive that back when I was a kid times were 1000 % better. I can't believe anyone from that era believes it wasn't...

There are so many other examples that I could type for hours.

[matcat]

Hobo, WHEN it was inserted doesn't matter. The idea and purpose behind it is still what I explained. To an extent you are correct in that the government was formed to allow religious freedom. But it was still based heavily on Christian morals and values. But it was done in a way that it would not PUSH Christian doctrine. I am sorry but our founding fathers NEVER imagined there be Churches of Satan in every city, or muslim holy wars driving political agendas around the world effecting American politics directly. They would be appauled by the state of the government today. Both from their beliefs and what this government has become.

I agree there is freedom to practice whatever religion you choose, the government cannot force you one way or another to belief in anything they want you to believe in. But that does not mean that a leader cannot be a Christian and speak openly of it. That also does not mean that the school system cannot pray, or display Christian holiday decorations, because displaying them is NOT the government forcing anyway to belief in any specific religion.

[TimberWolf]

Hey Bigrigjoe,
great post have you ever thought of taking those words and making a country song out of them!!!
Oh wait its already been done by Bucky Covington.
In the 20's they had the speakeasys breaking the law, and lets not forget my grandmother who did the unspeakable and raised her skirt to just below her knees. the 30's had Capone and many other ruthless criminals, the 40's had Hitler, the 50's had the hoodlum, the 60' had the beatnick/hippie that rolled into the 70's from then on it has been about growth and the almighty dollar bill.
My point is that through out time we have always dealt with bad people and greed, you can trace this back 1000's of years. There is no difference with todays world and yesterdays world other then we have more toys and more greed and more humans on the planet. In a hundred years it will be the same only you will see lots of little Marty Mcflys scooting about on thier hoover boards...


Timberwolf

[dobry4u]

Originally Posted by bigrigjoe66

To all those kids who survived .........

I remember drawing on cave walls, hunting for dinner with an arrow head on a stick, learning how to make fire, making my own jewelry, riding the mammoth 12 miles to school, and being jealous of the neighbors because they had a wheel... Damn amelioration issedoff: