[Colts Fan]

Gman, you couldn't have put it any better. What ever happened to the concept of personal responsibility? It seems to have gone out the window.

The was an audio clip played of a young woman after an Obama rally last week. She really had a case of the vapors. She said, "I'm so touched. I'm not going to have to worry about putting gas in my tank, or my mortgage payment..."

I blame Obama for this. His main goal and the goal for the rest of the socialists is for everyone to have to depend solely on the government for everything. When you listen to his speech excerpts you hear lines directly out of the Communist Manifesto and Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. They are preaching collectivism and class warfare.

Most of these socialists are very arrogant. Just look at golfhobo. He can't stand the fact that there are people out there that want to live in freedom and liberty and determine their own destiny. He mocks people who choose to live in those conditions. He sounds like Obama talking to that group of liberal millionaires in San Fransicko i which he mocks working folks saying that they cling to their guns and religion with antipathy for those that are not like them:

Heck, HALF of them weren't even going to VOTE for the "centrist" McCain until he picked a gun toting, war mongering extremist like Palin!

Golfhobo would like to have a perfect utopia where there is no poverty at all. Well hobo I got some bad news for ya. Poverty is a condition of capitalism. Not everyone wants to work. And when you take money away from those that have it and give it to the ones that don't, it doesn't give them any incentive for them to get off their ass and do something with their lives. When you rid the world of rich people in a capitalist system you destry that system because everyone ends up poor and their is no CAPITAL to maintain the economy.

Obama's policy of "trickle-up poverty" is a joke. And golfhobo, every time you go on one of your rants you look even more foolish and arrogant.

[BlooMoose]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I can't believe so many people could be so gullible to think that he is going to give them so many things for free. :roll: Someone has to pay the bill for all those "freebies." It started out that only those who earn over $250,000 will get a tax hike. Then it was $200,000. Next time it was $150,000. Someone mentioned yesterday that it is now down to $120,000. If he gets elected we will all pay a price. We will all get a tax increase. His higher taxes will result in a slower economy and lower productivity. Socialism has failed in every single country where it has been attempted. The only thing that works in the long term is freedom and democracy. Obama has out spent McCain 6 to 1 and according to the polls (if you believe them) it is still a close race. That in itself should tell some people something. The difference in money he has spend compared to McCain should have resulted in a huge lead. Perhaps some people are waking up and seeing him for what he is. We don't need more government or higher taxes. What we need is a much smaller government at all levels and lower taxes. Less government requires less taxes.

I think it was Bill Richardson (NM dem) is the one that said $120K. In my opinion, Mr. Richardson and Mr. Obama are two of a kind. I know a bunch of the people that work in state agencies in NM and that man (Richardson) has turned all kinds of things upside-down - he's a bonafide gangster who is in the back pocket of many unsavory characters (of course, I'm only going by what the people who have to work for him say...). They are both charlatans. I'm pondering (as I adjust my tinfoil cap) just how quick Hezbollah (who for some stupid reason decided to make it public that they back Obama...as if we didn't know that already) or whoever else will set up right here in the good ole USA. I wonder how many bodies will be following Obama around (like they do the Clinton's...people turn up dead around those guys). Free speech is already under fire.

THERE'S SOMETHING ROTTEN IN DENMARK!!! (and when I say Denmark...I really mean this election...)

[golfhobo]

Colts Fan said:

There was an audio clip played of a young woman after an Obama rally last week. She really had a case of the vapors. She said, "I'm so touched. I'm not going to have to worry about putting gas in my tank, or my mortgage payment..."

I blame Obama for this. His main goal and the goal for the rest of the socialists is for everyone to have to depend solely on the government for everything.

You're talking out your butt. He is simply saying that the middle class, blue collar worker SHOULD be able to EXPECT that government would look after the economics of the little guy AT LEAST as much as it helps, aids, and subsidizes the huge corporations that are banking millions if not billions in profits.

Most of these socialists are very arrogant. Just look at golfhobo. He can't stand the fact that there are people out there that want to live in freedom and liberty and determine their own destiny.

Wrong again. I cherish freedom and self-determination as much as the next guy. What I can't stand is those who think they are better than others because they had an easy road to financial security (most often due to inheritance) and have no compassion for those who have to struggle from the day they are BORN, usually into poverty that they did not choose.

He mocks people who choose to live in those conditions.

No, I mock those who are so elitist and arrogant that they blame the poor for BEING poor.

He sounds like Obama talking to that group of liberal millionaires in San Fransicko i which he mocks working folks saying that they cling to their guns and religion with antipathy for those that are not like them:

You didn't really READ any of the background on that statement, did you? You just quoted it because it was a soundbyte that supports your narrow view of him and his party.

I won't bother trying to explain it to you. I doubt you'd understand.

Golfhobo would like to have a perfect utopia where there is no poverty at all.

Well, I can't say I wouldn't want to rid the world of poverty (let alone our country,) but I am not waiting around for it to happen! And I don't expect our government to have the power to do so. You are wrong once again.

Well hobo I got some bad news for ya. Poverty is a condition of capitalism.

And I have news for you. Poverty exists in ALL forms of government and societies. But the fact that you use it as an excuse for the evils of capitalistic greed tells volumes about you.

Not everyone wants to work. And when you take money away from those that have it and give it to the ones that don't, it doesn't give them any incentive for them to get off their ass and do something with their lives.

Likewise, when you take tax dollars from the working class and GIVE them to corporations to give them incentive to do what they should be doing in the first place, and paying for out of their OWN profits, it doesn't really give them the "hungry" edge they need to compete now DOES it?

When you rid the world of rich people in a capitalist system you destry that system because everyone ends up poor and their is no CAPITAL to maintain the economy.

I have NEVER stated that I want to rid the world of rich people. But, I DO believe that if you take SOME of that "hoarded" wealth, and use it to fund the government that panders to you, thereby releasing some of the tax burden on the poor, they (the poor) WILL spend that capital on the goods and services that then add profits back to the capitalists. What "maintains the economy" is not the wealth the rich hoard in offshore accounts, but rather the buying power of the masses.

And golfhobo, every time you go on one of your rants you look even more foolish and arrogant.

Yeah, I do have to work at it. It doesn't come as easily for me as it does you.

[Colts Fan]

You're talking out your butt. He is simply saying that the middle class, blue collar worker SHOULD be able to EXPECT that government would look after the economics of the little guy AT LEAST as much as it helps, aids, and subsidizes the huge corporations that are banking millions if not billions in profits.

Wrong. He wants to subsidize non-working, non-taxpaying people for doing absolutely zilch. The people he wants to give a "tax refund" to do no pay income tax. It comes down to bribery in order to gain votes.

Wrong again. I cherish freedom and self-determination as much as the next guy. What I can't stand is those who think they are better than others because they had an easy road to financial security (most often due to inheritance) and have no compassion for those who have to struggle from the day they are BORN, usually into poverty that they did not choose.

Wow. Didn't you learn from your dad that envy is one of the seven deadly sins? You really love the class warfare thing, don't you?

No, I mock those who are so elitist and arrogant that they blame the poor for BEING poor.

Who does that? There are many, many cases of people in this country that came from poverty that made something of themselves. This is one of the only countries in the world where one can do such a thing. Again, with the class warfare hobo!

You didn't really READ any of the background on that statement, did you? You just quoted it because it was a soundbyte that supports your narrow view of him and his party.

I won't bother trying to explain it to you. I doubt you'd understand.

Oh, please do explain. This will be good.

Well, I can't say I wouldn't want to rid the world of poverty (let alone our country,) but I am not waiting around for it to happen! And I don't expect our government to have the power to do so. You are wrong once again.

Oh thank God.

And I have news for you. Poverty exists in ALL forms of government and societies. But the fact that you use it as an excuse for the evils of capitalistic greed tells volumes about you.

Capitalistic greed is actually what creates jobs. Sorry guy, you get an "F" in economics. Name a better economic system and I'll give you a cookie.

Likewise, when you take tax dollars from the working class and GIVE them to corporations to give them incentive to do what they should be doing in the first place, and paying for out of their OWN profits, it doesn't really give them the "hungry" edge they need to compete now DOES it?

The "working class" that you speak of pays 2.9% of all income tax collected.

I have NEVER stated that I want to rid the world of rich people. But, I DO believe that if you take SOME of that "horded" wealth, and use it to fund the government that panders to you, thereby releasing some of the tax burden on the poor, they (the poor) WILL spend that capital on the goods and services that then add profits back to the capitalists. What "maintains the economy" is not the wealth the rich hord in offshore accounts, but rather the buying power of the masses.

Your obvious envy of the rich definitely suggests otherwise. The poor do not pay taxes. Ever heard of the earned income tax credit? They already get a welfare payment! You should be happy!

Yeah, I do have to work at it. It doesn't come as easily for me as it does you.

For some people it's hard to determine condesension from actual wisdom. :roll2:

[BigDiesel]

Would not expect anything less from the Socialist/Marxist Golfhobo.....:rofl:

I wonder what the Obamites will do if Sen. McCain takes the presidency from the " messiah" ......:rofl:

[BigDiesel]

Originally Posted by Colts Fan

Wrong. He wants to subsidize non-working, non-taxpaying people for doing absolutely zilch. The people he wants to give a "tax refund" to do no pay income tax. It comes down to bribery in order to gain votes.



Wow. Didn't you learn from your dad that envy is one of the seven deadly sins? You really love the class warfare thing, don't you?



Who does that? There are many, many cases of people in this country that came from poverty that made something of themselves. This is one of the only countries in the world where one can do such a thing. Again, with the class warfare hobo!



Oh, please do explain. This will be good.



Oh thank God.



Capitalistic greed is actually what creates jobs. Sorry guy, you get an "F" in economics. Name a better economic system and I'll give you a cookie.



The "working class" that you speak of pays 2.9% of all income tax collected.



Your obvious envy of the rich definitely suggests otherwise. The poor do not pay taxes. Ever heard of the earned income tax credit? They already get a welfare payment! You should be happy!



For some people it's hard to determine condesension from actual wisdom. :roll2:

Golfhobo is a welfare seeker and will get it, if the " Messiah " is elected....

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

Golfhobo is a welfare seeker and will get it, if the " Messiah " is elected....

What a stupid statement! I have never needed or accepted welfare in my life! Heck, I don't really even care about a lower tax rate! I'm doing fine the way things are.

My biggest complaint has been the INCREASED tax cuts to the super rich, beyond what even Reagan thought was fair, at a time when Bush wanted to take us to war! Someone has to pay for that war, and it makes no sense to me to be cutting the taxes for those who don't NEED a tax cut, while putting us in further debt to the Chinese and Japanese!

BTW, MANY of the richest in this country, of BOTH parties, have agreed with that.

If Colts Fan is even remotely close on his percentage of taxes paid by the working class, then the HUGE deficit spending by Bush cannot possibly be paid for by the blue collar man! So, what does he do? He cuts the taxes of those YOU say are paying the most in taxes. So, how does our government stay solvent?

It comes down to the old saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't spend like there's no tomorrow, and THEN reduce the amount of revenue to pay for it! What is so hard to understand about this?

[Colts Fan]

My biggest complaint has been the INCREASED tax cuts to the super rich, beyond what even Reagan thought was fair,

Reagan cut the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 28%. The top bracket now is 36%. After the Reagan and Bush tax cuts we saw a record amount of money flowing into the treasury.

It comes down to the old saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't spend like there's no tomorrow, and THEN reduce the amount of revenue to pay for it! What is so hard to understand about this?

The problem is out of control spending, not tax cuts. Every dollar taken away in taxes is another dollar not being reinvested in company expansion and the economy.

[golfhobo]

Wrong. He wants to subsidize non-working, non-taxpaying people for doing absolutely zilch. The people he wants to give a "tax refund" to do no pay income tax. It comes down to bribery in order to gain votes.

I am not talking about tax refunds to those who don't work. I am concerned with tax relief for the 95% who ARE working. If you are angry about child credits for those on welfare, I am WITH you. I have never liked this, but I might point out that it has continued throughout 8 years of the Bush dynasty.

Wow. Didn't you learn from your dad that envy is one of the seven deadly sins? You really love the class warfare thing, don't you?

Well, I won't say that I don't envy the rich. Who wouldn't? But, I don't hate them because they are rich. I have a problem with giving them MORE when they don't need it and Bush is spending us into the poor house! As for class warfare? I read the posts on here that put down those who are disadvantaged as if it is all their fault, and I defend them. "I" am not the one that has reported in recent years that the middle class is becoming extinct. But, I DO see a danger if what they say is true. When and if we become ONLY the rich and the poor, and the backbone of our economy (the middle class) ceases to exist, then you may REALLY see some class warfare. But, it won't be of MY doing. So lighten up!

Who does that? There are many, many cases of people in this country that came from poverty that made something of themselves. This is one of the only countries in the world where one can do such a thing. Again, with the class warfare hobo!

Yes, what you say is true. Wonderful success stories abound. Now.... find me ONE where the person did not receive some kind of help from the government in the form of small business loans, college grants, or other means. This is NOT your grandfather's country where a man can lift himself up by his bootstraps SIMPLY by dedicating himself to hard work.

Oh, please do explain. This will be good.

Perhaps in another post. I fear the nuances of his statement might yet be beyond you.

Capitalistic greed is actually what creates jobs.

Yeah, for the Hondurans, Chinese, and others! Please quote some real statistics on job creation under Bush.... and I'm not talking about the minimum wage jobs that replaced the high paying industrial ones we shipped overseas.

Sorry guy, you get an "F" in economics.

If you say so. Still puts me ahead of McCain! :lol2:

Name a better economic system and I'll give you a cookie.

I have never said there was a better economic system. But, that doesn't excuse the abuses of our own!

The "working class" that you speak of pays 2.9% of all income tax collected.

Hmm.... I don't feel like googling this to challenge it. But, everything I've heard on here and elsewhere says that the richest 1 or 2% pay about 60% of the taxes. That leaves 40%. You'll have to show me how that equates to your claim of 2.9%.

Your obvious envy of the rich definitely suggests otherwise. The poor do not pay taxes. Ever heard of the earned income tax credit? They already get a welfare payment! You should be happy!

I'm not happy about ANY of it! I am NO supporter of welfare for the poor OR the corporations! I HATE the earned income tax credit! I am a supporter of the welfare to WORK program.... but even THAT takes tax dollars to realize! I WISH I had all the answers for you (and all of us) Colts Fan! I would like to see poverty eliminated or at least reduced. I would like to see the welfare rolls substantially reduced. And I am NOT in favor of doing so simply by "redistributing" wealth! But, it has become abundantly clear, that the only party who really cares about solving the situation is the Dems. Your party seems only interested in condemning them for being slackers! Short of anhialation, what do YOU propose to do about the situation?

For some people it's hard to determine condesension from actual wisdom. :roll2:

It would appear so.

[golfhobo]

Colts Fan said:

Reagan cut the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 28%. The top bracket now is 36%. After the Reagan and Bush tax cuts we saw a record amount of money flowing into the treasury.

Okay, if you say so. I have never claimed to be an expert on economics or taxes. But, I don't see how cutting the taxes to the rich could INCREASE the flow of money into the TREASURY. (not if/when they are paying the lion's share of taxes.)

Furthermore, it is my understanding that by rolling back the Bush tax cuts to the super rich, they will pay higher taxes than they did under Bush, but at a rate LOWER than they did under Reagan. Can you disprove that?

Now, assuming that what you claimed is supposed to support the argument that giving the rich a tax cut is supposed to create jobs, can you show me how the current unemployment rate, record closings of longtime companies and industries, and massive home foreclosures due to one person losing their job supports your theory that cutting taxes for the rich trickles down to an improved economy?

The problem is out of control spending, not tax cuts. Every dollar taken away in taxes is another dollar not being reinvested in company expansion and the economy.

Well, we can agree on the spending issue. However, it is now common belief and knowlege that Bush has outspent any previous Democratic administration, not ONLY on this "war of choice" of his, but in other areas as well. But, also, there is no evidence that companies would spend the money on investments or expansions. They are paying their CEO's exhorbitant packages, and BANKING windfall profits, while reducing the number of jobs for Americans.

And again I say.... if you want more money in the "economy" you must give that spending power to the middle class who SUSTAIN the economy with their spending. Why do you think so many major department stores are closing their doors? Is it because the rich stockholders won't pony up more investment money? Or is it because the public can't afford to BUY anything?